Author Topic: Valley 2 Beta .713 "Scatter And Gather" Released!  (Read 3593 times)

Offline x4000

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Valley 2 Beta .713 "Scatter And Gather" Released!
« on: January 10, 2013, 06:59:39 pm »
Original: http://arcengames.blogspot.com/2013/01/valley-2-beta-713-scatter-and-gather.html

This one further refines the controls to a really precise degree, majorly upgrades three spell groups, and adds three new monsters.

As if that wasn't enough, this one also comes with our next major batch of strategic game changes -- perhaps the most major we'll be making this month, we'll see.  There will certainly be more refinements to be made, but I think this is -- knock on wood -- likely to be the largest fundamental shift.

Then
The strategic game, circa a week ago, centered mostly around capturing buildings, holding them to gain resources, and repeatedly rebuilding them as the overlord knocked them down.  You'd increase NPC skills by sending them on missions, and you could only undertake two missions per turn, regardless of how many NPCs you had together.

So there was strong incentive for banding together.  Having NPCs attack buildings or convert/rebuild structures was their main function, because to do scavenging or "working a tile" (such as a farm or scrap factory) was too wasteful with limited total dispatches.

Now
The strategic game, as of this release, focuses a lot more on individual NPCs in a bit of a different way.  Gone are their skill levels, and gone are the overall limits on how many dispatches per turn you can make (but each NPC can still only do one thing per turn).  Also, critically, gone is the passive income from buildings you hold.

In order to gain income from buildings, you have to station NPCs there.  But it's a bit of a game of "chicken," because the overlord will eventually be bearing down on their building (to destroy it permanently), and they need to wring all the resources they can out of that building before it goes down.

Similarly, with buildings that can be converted to other buildings types, you want to do that with care.  It's a matter of managing the resources of your NPCs (where they are and how many you have) as well as managing the resources of "potential buildings I can use that the overlord hasn't torn down yet."

This isn't a sustainable situation, critically -- as with a Warcraft II map, for instance, if you play long enough then the map runs out of resources and that's just the end of things.  In the case of this game, by the time you'd hit that point you'd likely have lost anyhow for other reasons, but it is a pretty fundamental difference in terms of how the game plays out compared to a week ago.

Going along with this, since you've got to be ordering around so many more NPCs so much of the time, rather than just a few groups of many of them, we've really streamlined the interface for giving them orders.  Also, a lot more of the orders you give are implicit.

NPCs can only do one of two things on a turn: take some action on the tile they are on, or move.  You give them their movement orders, if any, and you also give them orders to build structures (since otherwise there's no way to know what sort of structure you want them to build).

Otherwise, beyond that, you express your will simply by positioning them -- put them next to enemy structures, and they'll attack.  Put them on a farm, and they'll farm.

Our goal has been to make the strategy game deeper than it was a week ago, which I think we've accomplished, while at the same time making it something that takes less time for you to input your decisions with.  And I think we've accomplished that also.  Certainly there are more conveniences and tweaks that can be made on that front, and the balance is preliminary at best with the revised  mechanics.

But these mechanics do really seem to get at our core goals a lot better without really changing terribly much of the code or interface in the grand scheme of things.  In a lot of ways, it reminds me of the sort of changes that were being made to AI War late in its alpha/beta (which was private), rather than the flailing that sometimes went on with Valley 1.

Once again, thanks for bearing with us as we go through this refinement process; pre-existing worlds can certainly be upgraded into this new version, but you may find that the balance is really off with them if they came from before 0.712 release.  Sorry about that; it's not something we intend to do a lot of.  But it definitely improves things for the better.

More to come soon.  Enjoy!

This is a standard update that you can download through the  in-game updater itself, if you already have any version of the game.  If you have the beta on Steam, it will automatically update for you.  When you  launch the game, you'll see the notice of the update having been found  if you're connected to the Internet at the time.  If you don't have the standalone game, you can download that hereIf you already own the first game, just use your existing license key to unlock the sequel for free!
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Mick

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .713 "Scatter And Gather" Released!
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2013, 07:16:25 pm »
I like the strategic changes. I never really was comfortable with the one-blob-move-per-turn style.

Offline Vatticson

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .713 "Scatter And Gather" Released!
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2013, 07:45:49 pm »
Wow, really unexpected change at the strategy o_O. Gonna try it tomorrow!


Offline Coppermantis

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .713 "Scatter And Gather" Released!
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2013, 08:00:02 pm »
Sounds good. I'll give it a shot when I have time.
I can already tell this is going to be a roller coaster ride of disappointment.

Offline Billick

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .713 "Scatter And Gather" Released!
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2013, 09:14:25 pm »
Hey guys.  Long time lurker, first time poster here.  I want to start off by saying how much I enjoy your games.  I bought AI War a few months ago, and I just picked up AVWW 1 and 2 during the Steam holiday sale, and am liking all three of them (I also have Tidalis, but I haven't played that much yet). 

Anyway, as far Valley 2 goes, and the recent patches, I am really liking the way that the strategic portion of the game is shaping up.  It's already miles better than the first game in that regard.  One thing I'd like to see on the world map is more info being displayed.  I'd like to see detail from the tile I'm on without having to go into the menu.  Also, it would be nice to see what your scrap/food income would be for holding a tile (a number rather than just decent, poor, etc.), as well as which survivor is on the tile (if there is one).  When moving survivors, I'd like to be able to see which one is on which tile (it's easy to forget!). 

For the platformer side, I think the choice to bring back the angled shots is a good one.  It still feels a bit awkward to me, but that may be because I'm not used to playing this type of game with a gamepad. 

Couple random things:
Eels feel way overpowerd to me. 
Your character should do flips when he/she jumps like in the first one.  Because flips are awesome.

Overall, it's looking good though!

Offline doubtful

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .713 "Scatter And Gather" Released!
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2013, 09:26:26 pm »
Maybe I'm just failing to see something obvious (pretty likely, with me XD), but I'm having trouble figuring out how to clear "impasse" areas with this new context-based self-chosen survivor mission approach.

How does one clear impassable areas if you can't choose it under the tile's context menu? All I can do is "move survivors here" and I've already got one there. :O


*edit again* Derp! Figured this out just now by trying waiting a whole turn with nothing else to do on the adjacent tile, and they automatically cleared the impasse tiles. So yeah, I derped. :)

P.S. I do like the new survivor dispatch mechanics though! :D I like every change you guys have made so far this release, as usual.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 10:26:37 pm by doubtful »

Offline Aklyon

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .713 "Scatter And Gather" Released!
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2013, 09:40:47 pm »
I agree that flips are pretty cool, though unless I'm mistaken thats more due to the animation not being completely finished.

Offline ChristopherRC2000

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .713 "Scatter And Gather" Released!
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2013, 09:44:31 pm »
Just a quick add, .713 looks interesting, but it looks like the angled shots is gone that was added in 711 and 712 and to second that the eels are overpowered. I haven't run into the impassable areas thing though. I'll start a new world and let you know what happens.

Offline doubtful

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .713 "Scatter And Gather" Released!
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2013, 10:03:57 pm »
the eels are overpowered.

Regarding Christopher's comment about the eels, my opinion is that their attack is a wee bit longer ranged than one might think is fair considering it's (apparently?) impossible or near impossible to avoid, once fired.  However, if you have any sort of "sliding" attacks, those work great for taking them out as they inevitably bump into terrain near water's edge as they path toward you.  Homing attacks of course work too.

I think the key here is to just stay out of range and consider your approach carefully.  There's no real rush since this isn't the first game and you don't have 600 more rooms to clear before you find what you're looking for.  8) I sort of like the eels; they add some needed challenge to the otherwise bland fish and...demon porpoise...melee aquatic enemies.

That and the fact that there will be many more enemies to come eventually means you won't have to put up with these as much, later.  I like the eels as they are, personally. Mostly, their attack and its range/speed just came as a (welcome) surprise. :)

Offline Aklyon

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .713 "Scatter And Gather" Released!
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2013, 10:14:03 pm »
The only big problem I'm seeing so far trying out .713 is my controller seems to be far too eager to let me get stuck in place if its pointed downwards more than a tiny bit, halting me in a spot. Upping all the deadzones seemed to help a bit, though its still making me get hit more than I'd like.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 10:20:48 pm by Aklyon »

Offline Teal_Blue

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .713 "Scatter And Gather" Released!
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2013, 10:14:23 pm »
Are angled shots broken? or changed?

Offline Aklyon

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .713 "Scatter And Gather" Released!
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2013, 10:15:56 pm »
They're working fine for me. Just need to remember you need to push the right directions.

Offline madcow

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .713 "Scatter And Gather" Released!
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2013, 12:37:12 am »
I'm especially glad to see the removal of the luck elements of the strategic mode, that was so frustrating. I'll have to play around with the new stuff sometime soonish. Maybe over the weekend.

Offline Teal_Blue

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .713 "Scatter And Gather" Released!
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2013, 04:57:53 am »
They're working fine for me. Just need to remember you need to push the right directions.


That did it perfectly!!  Thank You!


Offline Teal_Blue

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Floating Sign... :)
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2013, 05:33:47 am »
Hi,
        there is a floating sign in this one, up maybe... 10 or fifteen feet in the air on top of a tree.

just thought i would mention it,  13 so far is Fantastic!  The new monsters and effects, and the angled shots... and i am really liking the multi missions for the npc's.   :)

-T


« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 05:35:50 am by Teal_Blue »