Valley 2 Beta .711 "Trimming The Fat" Released!

[x4000]

Original: http://arcengames.blogspot.com/2013/01/valley-2-beta-711-trimming-fat-released.html

This one adds in limited context-based angled shots, as well as making a lot of strategy-related changes.  This will be the first round of several as we refine the strategy game during this month.  From the release notes, here's my explanation of what we're up to:

While we do feel that we have a solid strategic game here, we do think that it can also be better. More engaging, more challenging (on higher difficulties), more streamlined (in terms of how easy it is to express your will), and more thought-provoking (in terms of how many things you must consider at an advanced or semi-advanced level of play when deciding what actions to take).

Additionally, we're really trying to streamline the game itself a little bit more -- it was already extremely streamlined in the main, especially compared to the first game, but this is trimming off some of the last of the fat. The last thing we want is for any particular game element to overstay its welcome; we'd rather you were hungry for more and play a second game of it. All in all this is leading to a game that is a bit shorter than it previously was, but also one that is going to be substantially more intense given many of the overlord's actions are now not possible to undo (you can't just rebuild what he knocks down).

There are more changes planned -- or rather, we have a variety of ideas that we think might work well to continue to bring this from being a good strategy game to a great one. These will be something we experiment with throughout the course of January before settling on final mechanics by February. The game isn't far off, and it's just a matter of getting all of the existing pieces we have to fit together in the most ideal way possible at this point. Right now we're just taking the first steps with the strategic game, and then reassessing from here (thus to better inform our further changes).

And as for the context-based angled shots, here's what those are about:

• If you stand on a slope facing into the slope, and fire your spell straight forward, it will angle up instead (firing directly forward would accomplish nothing, after all).
• If you stand on that same slope facing away from the slope, any shots you fire go forward like normal. However, if you duck, then your shots will go down the slope at an angle instead of doing your normal low-shot.

More to come soon.  Enjoy!

This is a standard update that you can download through the  in-game updater itself, if you already have any version of the game.  If you have the beta on Steam, it will automatically update for you.  When you  launch the game, you'll see the notice of the update having been found  if you're connected to the Internet at the time.  If you don't have the standalone game, you can download that here.  If you already own the first game, just use your existing license key to unlock the sequel for free!

[madcow]

This may seem like a weird request, but is there a possibility of cheat codes (disable achievements if needed) so we can play around with the strategic mode testing?

I think it can be hard to get an idea of the impact these will have on the full strategic game, and it would be nice to test that side of the game without having to go through the platforming aspect as well.

[x4000]

That's a great idea, actually.

[MouldyK]

Posted on the Steam Forum about the Control change in case anyone wishes to talk about it since they were quite vocal about it before: New Controls for Angled Shots in 0.711. Opinions here to make easier for viewing.

Just playing it abit, I think it can help quite well, but other opinions maybe a good idea.

ALso, I second the motion for that "Strategic Test Mode". Will also mean testing the different aspects of the platforming in different zones can maybe benifit too if there was an option to turn it on and off mid-game.

[Aklyon]

Cheat codes need to make a return at some point in gaming. The only ones I've seen recently (aside from older games that had them) that I can think of are the 'force multipliers' from Prototype 2, and I'm only counting those because they disable achievement progress. (And because one of them is a giant thermobaric launcher that blows up everything one shot at a time, which is the kind of silly I expect from cheat codes in that kind of sandboxy game

[Oralordos]

Well since you removed map sizes, I'm wondering if perhaps in an expansion you will add map types. Like an islands style map type with bridges or something.

[danterules]

The attacks barely angle up still , its almost very trying to get across maps where its not flat , gave the game another go to only die and increase the difficulty further , there should a cooldown timer where the monsters get back to normal levels on the initial difficulty chosen while starting the game . The game is awesome but the aiming is just distracting me from it.

i reinstalled valley 1 to enjoy the mouse aim again.

hate such spots in the game under current aiming system. added image

[MouldyK]

First pic: Jump over to the other side and dispatch them maybe?

2nd pic: Seems jarring, but might be a way to kill still in that situation.

Dunno, I like the challenge in the game, but maybe if things like this occur a lot, the penalty for death can be less severe.

[danterules]

First pic: Jump over to the other side and dispatch them maybe?

2nd pic: Seems jarring, but might be a way to kill still in that situation.

Dunno, I like the challenge in the game, but maybe if things like this occur a lot, the penalty for death can be less severe.

i know like after seeing it , you feel like you can think around a way but when i was playing it , i felt bogged down, the previous level was even worse with more depth and water , this one is where you get to level up....just frustration got to me , will try the jump now but its becoming too frequent :\

btw i jumped after thinking there was no way to dispatch them fast , the next screen is where i  died

EDIT: lol i just ran past them and guess whats the next screens , there is no time to get the angle shots right...sigh will take a break for a while

[MouldyK]

xD Arcen hate you lol. Maybe with more enemy variety, this may change. You never know.

[madcow]

He does get at something I must agree with, I do think the death penalty is going in the wrong direction. It's definitely better than losing a turn. But I think the death penalty (if there even is one, I'm not really opposed to a lack of penalty but I can see the desire for one too) should be moving you towards an actual loss condition, not a stalemate where you basically throw up your hands and say I give up and quit. A slight moral or mana loss is my recommendation.

[danterules]

xD Arcen hate you lol. Maybe with more enemy variety, this may change. You never know.

there was one new monster in the previous level with a shield blocking everything that was cool , once you figure out the weak spot then the damage occurs

[Misery]

Well, testing the controls, I hadnt expected them to really work out with this new setup, but they actually do.   I am impressed, I know I sure as heck would not have thought up this solution.   To test it I went back to the cave that had so very many "get stuck without seeker" spots, and used the spell class with the least options that I'm most terrible with (agh charge shots, still useless), but this time I was able to actually pass it.

Yet again, you guys have fixed a really annoying problem REALLY QUICKLY.



As for the strategic stuff, hmm..... I'll have a proper go at it in a bit here, but it kinda sounds like there might be LESS strategic options now?  My thoughts are, once the Overlord has stomped on a particular group of houses/buildings/whatever in some corner of the map..... there will never again be any reason to send survivors in that direction again, as you now have zero options there.   Not to mention some buildings *need* to either be permanent or rebuildable (thinking of pyramids here, unless they already are, but I dont see them there; mana is nigh-impossible to come by as it is already).

More specifically though, it sounds like the possible uses for survivors might be dramatically lower with this setup.   Before, I might look at the map and think: "Ok, so I can either rebuild the Amp tower, or go over here and rebuild the pyramid, but I kinda also need more housing, which I can put over here since the bad guy has moved away from it now".   That particular decision would now become something like "Ok, I can.... only build more houses.   But only in this section here".



That's just initial impressions, though.   I'll give more feedback once I've had some time with it.   


And to repeat some stuff I mentioned in a different topic:

So far, this seems to work out decently enough.   At least with basic spells anyway.   Without the angled aiming as it was before, some spells are still going to be almost unusable like those ones that rise upward after being fired.... I could ONLY ever hit anything with those if firing at an angle, since it changed the arc of the shots, or the Sine spells, those just plain never seem to hit much.   


There's still the issue of the actual spell balance remaining..... things like whips or those bizarro "big slow ball that follows you and doesnt do anything and then crashes into a wall and vanishes" spells are still completely worthless, but I'm thinking most classes should at least be viable now.

Though, still need to do much more testing yet.

[Misery]

First pic: Jump over to the other side and dispatch them maybe?

2nd pic: Seems jarring, but might be a way to kill still in that situation.

Dunno, I like the challenge in the game, but maybe if things like this occur a lot, the penalty for death can be less severe.

i know like after seeing it , you feel like you can think around a way but when i was playing it , i felt bogged down, the previous level was even worse with more depth and water , this one is where you get to level up....just frustration got to me , will try the jump now but its becoming too frequent :\

btw i jumped after thinking there was no way to dispatch them fast , the next screen is where i  died

EDIT: lol i just ran past them and guess whats the next screens , there is no time to get the angle shots right...sigh will take a break for a while

I think what you ran into is actually a glitch.   I cant imagine that all of those lumpy guys piling up all in that one spot is intentional.    I ran into this myself just now.   Since my character was oddly fast-moving, I leapt over that first group, only to find more behind them on a sloping hill.... used Campfire to get past this mess.    Certain ammo spells could work very well here as well;  jumping INTO the pile of lumpy guys and firing certain ammo spells right as you're about to land on them could kill all of them;  somewhat depends on your perks though.    That actually is an effective strategy against the lumpy guys in general, when they're in a spot that makes them hard to hit.




Anyway, I wanted to point out before I forgot:   Still running into unbeatable level-up towers here.   You know, the sort that require a feat that I do not have, the miniaturize one in this case.





Like that.   I might see if I can somehow try to get the level to regenerate a different way, er, not entirely sure just how to do that though, something about the save file....

It's very early on though, if I REALLY need to I can just restart.



Also, really liking the new monsters so far.  I havent seen all of them yet, but the ones I have seen really do take some very different tactics to defeat, and different spells are working against different monsters, that's a good thing.   Since these guys showed up, I even found a good use for those magnetic ball spells that I couldnt find a use for before.   Very, very good. 


That guy with the shield is particularly neat.   Like the way he looks, as well as the pattern used and the weakspot thing.    Very cool.


Also, I'm getting ALOT of survivor rescue spots on the world map here;  I started a new world, and just 3 turns in there must be 8 of them that I can currently access.   Dunno if that's supposed to happen or not.

And a buncha other stuff that I'll put on Mantis later.

[madcow]

I see more new controls in the works on the wiki.  There's an issue I can already envision with power slide (which is already fiddly I've found).  It could probably use to be a bound spell - I recommend shift key. Then removed from using the movement keys.