Author Topic: Valley 2 Beta .710 "More Monsters At Last" Released!  (Read 3058 times)

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
Valley 2 Beta .710 "More Monsters At Last" Released!
« on: January 07, 2013, 08:45:58 pm »
Original: http://arcengames.blogspot.com/2013/01/valley-2-beta-710-more-monsters-at-last.html

This one has a few tweaks and bugfixes, but mainly it's focused on adding more monsters.  Prior to this release we had 13 of the target 114ish monsters implemented.  Now we've added 5 more.

The effect that this has on the game in terms of the feeling of variety as you explore around is pretty substantial, but that's only going to get compounded as we add more and more monsters.  We're going to try to make huge strides on the monsters this month, so there's going to be a lot of releases like this with lots of monsters.  Exciting times!

More to come soon.  Enjoy!

This is a standard update that you can download through the  in-game updater itself, if you already have any version of the game.  If you have the beta on Steam, it will automatically update for you.  When you  launch the game, you'll see the notice of the update having been found  if you're connected to the Internet at the time.  If you don't have the standalone game, you can download that hereIf you already own the first game, just use your existing license key to unlock the sequel for free!
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline MouldyK

  • Sr. Member Mark II
  • ****
  • Posts: 353
Re: Valley 2 Beta .710 "More Monsters At Last" Released!
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2013, 09:31:29 pm »
Rocket Sentinel: No longer sentient.

Urban Sniper: Sniped! (With my fists!)

Robot Piranha: Scrapped Wreckage in the Sea.

Auroch Warrior: Shields do not block my awesomness...or my bullet spam.

Now to find the Slug. 8)

Also, with all these creative names for the monsters, a bestiary can come later?

EDIT: Can't find Slug Fiend anywhere. O_O
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 09:53:45 pm by MouldyK »

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
Re: Valley 2 Beta .710 "More Monsters At Last" Released!
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2013, 10:04:55 pm »
Try the deep. :)
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline MouldyK

  • Sr. Member Mark II
  • ****
  • Posts: 353
Re: Valley 2 Beta .710 "More Monsters At Last" Released!
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2013, 10:21:39 pm »
Try the deep. :)

Slug-Fiend: Unfiended! 8)

It looks quite weird and like a whale, but still quite cool.


Anyway, i'm done with my crappy puns and such...until new enemies come.

Offline Aklyon

  • Core Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,089
Re: Valley 2 Beta .710 "More Monsters At Last" Released!
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2013, 10:44:40 pm »
The Auroch Warrior is still pretty cool :)

Offline MouldyK

  • Sr. Member Mark II
  • ****
  • Posts: 353
Re: Valley 2 Beta .710 "More Monsters At Last" Released!
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2013, 09:57:05 am »
That new playable character, Limon, better be a fake Simon Belmont or I declare it a missed opportunity. :P

Offline LayZboy

  • Full Member Mark II
  • ***
  • Posts: 162
Re: Valley 2 Beta .710 "More Monsters At Last" Released!
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2013, 11:10:41 am »
Quote
More monsters at last


Wooooooooo

Offline Vatticson

  • Newbie Mark II
  • *
  • Posts: 22
Re: Valley 2 Beta .710 "More Monsters At Last" Released!
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2013, 02:19:53 pm »
Ooooh myyy f*king god, the slug is DISGUSTING, and thats good! :)

New monsters are cool, with my favorite being the Auroch.

Just to say, that "ball" thing, maybe needs some hp? It always dies when he "counters" any of my spells! in 1 or 2 hits below level 8

Offline MouldyK

  • Sr. Member Mark II
  • ****
  • Posts: 353
Re: Valley 2 Beta .710 "More Monsters At Last" Released!
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2013, 07:47:04 pm »
Quote
It is no longer possible to select the world size.

- We were finding this impossible to balance around, as the world size really means something different here than in a standard RTS or similar. Normally in an RTS the world size means how far you have to travel to meet your enemy, but here you start at the same place as your enemy. So really world size was just affecting tedium and the ability to kite the overlord over long distances, etc.
- Now everyone plays on the same size world -- same as you get the same size board in Chess or Triple Town or Tetris or whatever -- and we find this should be a lot more straightforward to balance, and to provide a consistently fun experience for everyone.

Does this mean that if you can maybe balance the larger worlds later, you may release a patch or does it completely rule out bigger maps?
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 07:59:34 pm by MouldyK »

Offline madcow

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,153
Re: Valley 2 Beta .710 "More Monsters At Last" Released!
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2013, 07:58:13 pm »
I'm a little worried about the prospect of being able to permanently lose amplification towers or pyramids.

Offline MouldyK

  • Sr. Member Mark II
  • ****
  • Posts: 353
Re: Valley 2 Beta .710 "More Monsters At Last" Released!
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2013, 07:58:55 pm »
I'm a little worried about the prospect of being able to permanently lose amplification towers or pyramids.

YES! This better not be the case.

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
Re: Valley 2 Beta .710 "More Monsters At Last" Released!
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2013, 09:21:02 pm »
Quote
It is no longer possible to select the world size.

- We were finding this impossible to balance around, as the world size really means something different here than in a standard RTS or similar. Normally in an RTS the world size means how far you have to travel to meet your enemy, but here you start at the same place as your enemy. So really world size was just affecting tedium and the ability to kite the overlord over long distances, etc.
- Now everyone plays on the same size world -- same as you get the same size board in Chess or Triple Town or Tetris or whatever -- and we find this should be a lot more straightforward to balance, and to provide a consistently fun experience for everyone.

Does this mean that if you can maybe balance the larger worlds later, you may release a patch or does it completely rule out bigger maps?

To be honest, I really don't see us doing that, but you never know.  The fact is that there are certain things that we just can't do if we're going to vary world size in a non-powers-based fashion (like amplification towers).  There are also some nightmare issues with the early game vs the late game on a giant map with the movement speed of the overworld.  Things just get unwieldy to the point that the game stops resembling the game. 

Rather than trying to do a lot of things in an okay fashion, we're trying to execute on a smaller number of things really well.  That's the goal, anyhow.  I don't really see where the variant world map sizes will add much for the game except ongoing balance headaches, and adding in secondary sizes that are really different from the base size really becomes like designing whole new games.  Which is a possibility, but really more that's sort of like expansion material, if that makes sense.  It would need tons of playtesting and rule shifts and so on.  That's just not something that you run into with RTS games or even most TBS games, but this game is pretty unique thanks to how the overlord works and so on.

I'm a little worried about the prospect of being able to permanently lose amplification towers or pyramids.

YES! This better not be the case.

That is absolutely the case, and by design.  Choose when to purify your pyramid carefully, get as much out of it as you can, and then when it gets destroyed move on to something else.  The amplification towers are also just temporary bonuses now, too.

The only ones immune to the overlord are the cold dispersal, heat dispersal, and ivory towers.

Basically, this is not an open-ended game -- and honestly it never was.  You have to kill the overlord before he crushes you.  So now it's not quite so black and white in terms of when to purify certain tiles, which I think is really interesting.  Once you purify them, you get the benefit of them, but you also risk his coming after them.

It takes him longer to get around now, though, thanks to the removal of most of the warp gates.

And by the by, the balance here isn't final.  His movement speed may need to change, we may need more of certain buildings to seed now, others to be constructable from the generic buildings, etc, etc.  There are also some other changes in general that we're considering that might have a solid impact on this.  But this first round of changes introduces the first core set of conceptual changes; mainly that "rebuilding isn't a thing anymore," and therefore the buildings on the map are a finite resource to be captured and used carefully.

Anyway, it's step one along a path to what I think is a game with a lot more interesting decisions to make on the strategic side.  This overlord dude isn't messing around anymore. ;)
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline MouldyK

  • Sr. Member Mark II
  • ****
  • Posts: 353
Re: Valley 2 Beta .710 "More Monsters At Last" Released!
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2013, 09:40:36 pm »
Quote
It is no longer possible to select the world size.

- We were finding this impossible to balance around, as the world size really means something different here than in a standard RTS or similar. Normally in an RTS the world size means how far you have to travel to meet your enemy, but here you start at the same place as your enemy. So really world size was just affecting tedium and the ability to kite the overlord over long distances, etc.
- Now everyone plays on the same size world -- same as you get the same size board in Chess or Triple Town or Tetris or whatever -- and we find this should be a lot more straightforward to balance, and to provide a consistently fun experience for everyone.

Does this mean that if you can maybe balance the larger worlds later, you may release a patch or does it completely rule out bigger maps?

To be honest, I really don't see us doing that, but you never know.  The fact is that there are certain things that we just can't do if we're going to vary world size in a non-powers-based fashion (like amplification towers).  There are also some nightmare issues with the early game vs the late game on a giant map with the movement speed of the overworld.  Things just get unwieldy to the point that the game stops resembling the game. 

Rather than trying to do a lot of things in an okay fashion, we're trying to execute on a smaller number of things really well.  That's the goal, anyhow.  I don't really see where the variant world map sizes will add much for the game except ongoing balance headaches, and adding in secondary sizes that are really different from the base size really becomes like designing whole new games.  Which is a possibility, but really more that's sort of like expansion material, if that makes sense.  It would need tons of playtesting and rule shifts and so on.  That's just not something that you run into with RTS games or even most TBS games, but this game is pretty unique thanks to how the overlord works and so on.

I'm a little worried about the prospect of being able to permanently lose amplification towers or pyramids.

YES! This better not be the case.

That is absolutely the case, and by design.  Choose when to purify your pyramid carefully, get as much out of it as you can, and then when it gets destroyed move on to something else.  The amplification towers are also just temporary bonuses now, too.

The only ones immune to the overlord are the cold dispersal, heat dispersal, and ivory towers.

Basically, this is not an open-ended game -- and honestly it never was.  You have to kill the overlord before he crushes you.  So now it's not quite so black and white in terms of when to purify certain tiles, which I think is really interesting.  Once you purify them, you get the benefit of them, but you also risk his coming after them.

It takes him longer to get around now, though, thanks to the removal of most of the warp gates.

And by the by, the balance here isn't final.  His movement speed may need to change, we may need more of certain buildings to seed now, others to be constructable from the generic buildings, etc, etc.  There are also some other changes in general that we're considering that might have a solid impact on this.  But this first round of changes introduces the first core set of conceptual changes; mainly that "rebuilding isn't a thing anymore," and therefore the buildings on the map are a finite resource to be captured and used carefully.

Anyway, it's step one along a path to what I think is a game with a lot more interesting decisions to make on the strategic side.  This overlord dude isn't messing around anymore. ;)

Well I will be testing it out this week to see how I think about that, but as always, you do have your points about the changes and having it be more "finite" maybe good in the long run. No lollygagging = Every move becomes more important.

Offline LaughingThesaurus

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,723
Re: Valley 2 Beta .710 "More Monsters At Last" Released!
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2013, 10:45:26 pm »
I like the looks of these patch notes. Feeling a lot more like updating and playing. I shouldn't even need my controller for the game anymore.
Perhaps this forum, or somewhere, could use a gigantic disclaimer that says "Hey, most of the game is subject to change".