Author Topic: Valley 2 Beta .708 "Aggressive Angles" Released!  (Read 4413 times)

Offline x4000

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Valley 2 Beta .708 "Aggressive Angles" Released!
« on: January 03, 2013, 05:23:37 pm »
Original: http://arcengames.blogspot.com/2013/01/valley-2-beta-708-aggressive-angles.html

This one is the first beta update since our return from the holidays.  Yesterday I was in meetings practically all day about our various in-work projects, making sure that we hit the ground running in the new year.  Things are looking good on that score!

In terms of this new version of Valley 2, there's a lot to love, but it's mostly tweaks and fixes and the like.

The number one complaint we've had is about the controls feeling awkward with the game in terms of shooting at angles.  And players were right -- that was awkward.  A lot of us didn't really pick up on that because we simply ignored the existence of the angled shots and then things were great.  But if you actually felt like you needed to use the controls that were there... well, then it felt like uncomfortable finger ballet.

After a lot of mulling, we decided that if shooting only in the four cardinal directions was good enough for Cave Story, then it's good enough for us as well.  The release notes contain much more detailed notes on the reasoning and rationale behind these control changes.

Another big item is monster aggression on player death, which you can read about in greater detail there.  But basically, it was pointed out to us that there was just no incentive at all to avoid death, and so we introduced one that is based off of player suggestions but a bit on the kinder side.  Unless you're playing on a higher difficulty than your skill matches, this shouldn't really be an issue of a change for you; and on the lowest two difficulties it actually flat-out makes the game easier.

Lastly, there was a whole laundry list of fixes and tweaks and balance adjustments, including some that were game-blocking in the late game if you hit level 21 before doing certain other actions.  And including some that were causing unnecessary confusion about what can and can not be walked on in terms of tiles on the world map.

More to come soon.  Enjoy!

This is a standard update that you can download through the  in-game updater itself, if you already have any version of the game.  If you have the beta on Steam, it will automatically update for you.  When you  launch the game, you'll see the notice of the update having been found  if you're connected to the Internet at the time.  If you don't have the standalone game, you can download that hereIf you already own the first game, just use your existing license key to unlock the sequel for free!
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Offline LayZboy

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .708 "Aggressive Angles" Released!
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2013, 05:45:26 pm »
No new monsters?

Boooooooo.

Offline tigersfan

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .708 "Aggressive Angles" Released!
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2013, 05:47:52 pm »
No new monsters?

Boooooooo.

Sorry. Those are actually a decent amount of work, and we're still kinda catching up from the break. We'll get new monsters in soon. :)

Offline chemical_art

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .708 "Aggressive Angles" Released!
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2013, 05:53:28 pm »
No new monsters?

Boooooooo.

Sorry. Those are actually a decent amount of work, and we're still kinda catching up from the break. We'll get new monsters in soon. :)

I guess this beta is different from AI Wars beta's then, where most things are already made but are released in phases for balancing. Unless you were making new AI's and units on the fly.

Not saying it is good or bad, just different.
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Offline tigersfan

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .708 "Aggressive Angles" Released!
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2013, 05:59:56 pm »
No new monsters?

Boooooooo.

Sorry. Those are actually a decent amount of work, and we're still kinda catching up from the break. We'll get new monsters in soon. :)

I guess this beta is different from AI Wars beta's then, where most things are already made but are released in phases for balancing. Unless you were making new AI's and units on the fly.

Not saying it is good or bad, just different.

I would have no idea. To be honest, AI war was, I believe nearing version 3 when I first heard about it and Arcen. ;)  Chris? :)

Offline x4000

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .708 "Aggressive Angles" Released!
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2013, 06:07:59 pm »
We've never made something and then held it back for balancing. With AI War betas it's always been us releasing the maps and ships and AIs as they are completed. Granted, a lot of them share a lot of code so the work is additive, but still.
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .708 "Aggressive Angles" Released!
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2013, 07:02:39 pm »
Quote from: chemical_art link=topic=12252.msg133218#msg1w33218 date=1357253608
I guess this beta is different from AI Wars beta's then, where most things are already made but are released in phases for balancing. Unless you were making new AI's and units on the fly.

Not saying it is good or bad, just different.

I figured that the order of new content is going to be different because this is a pre-release of the base game, rather than an expansion.

Anyways, I haven't even played this game yet, and I am happy to see the equipment sturdiness buff. ;)


The monster aggression death system looks interesting, but it better be balanced carefully to avoid a "treadmill" effect. Balanced wrong, if you die, it can make the game much harder to the point of making it really hard to not die again (thus, making the problem worse), to the point where for new players, it can get much, MUCH harder than intended with only a few deaths. Also, if balanced wrong, it makes the game much easier "stat-wise" for skilled players, and harder "stat-wise" for new players, which is sort of the opposite effect of what new/experianced people want in their game difficulty system.

However, if balanced right, this could be very cool system. I'm sure (or I at least hope) you guys and the community can figure out what a good balance is though. :)

Offline Winge

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .708 "Aggressive Angles" Released!
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2013, 07:12:05 pm »
Yay!  I can progress again!  Well, sort of, as I now have the full turn penalty and the death penalty (and if that's retroactive...well, let's just say I had to poison pill out of the ceiling a few times...).
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Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .708 "Aggressive Angles" Released!
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2013, 07:56:14 pm »
Without having tested this in game, I'm very positive to these changes. Simply removing angled shots sounds a lot more sane than trying to make them work. Good call! Now to get in game and actually play some and then whine about the character feeling sluggish! ;)
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Offline doubtful

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .708 "Aggressive Angles" Released!
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2013, 08:34:17 pm »
I personally liked the angled shots before the sorta wonky "auto angled shot" thing came in and made jumping horizontal shots more difficult, but I'll take removal of angled shots over the aforementioned wonkiness any day. B)

Having an actual death penalty sounds good, too! I approve! Now my countless horrible deaths due to massive suckage will actually mean something. XD

I'm also glad to see Ember Shot getting a buff...it was just too wimpy for also having a crappy calibre and mediocre range. :Db

Offline LaughingThesaurus

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .708 "Aggressive Angles" Released!
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2013, 09:24:41 pm »
Death penalty seems reasonable. It kind of rewards you for not dying, rather than explicitly punishing you for dying.
Angled shots: I like shooting at angles. The auto-angling was the only real problem I had ultimately. The thing about cave story is that the enemies were so simple, and were rarely the real threat to you, and their shots were so incredibly fragile to begin with. We'll have to see how it plays out.
Um... no other comments by the looks.

Offline ShaggyMoose

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .708 "Aggressive Angles" Released!
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2013, 03:19:16 am »
I like the feature where you are warped out of caves directly after picking up the loot rather than having to climb out...

Is it possible to accidentally warp out before you pick up the loot though?

Offline Misery

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .708 "Aggressive Angles" Released!
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2013, 08:52:32 pm »
Well, this is.... interesting.   Cant say much more on it just yet.

As I mentioned in another topic though, I think the terrain suddenly may have just become a major issue.

This sort of control scheme worked for Cave Story, sure, but there's one big, big difference between this game and Cave Story, and that's the level design.   Cave Story, even in it's most difficult areas, tends to be made up of very open, very SIMPLE areas, with almost no angled bits (or small constrained tunnels) to speak of.  That game really liked vast, open caverns.  Not to mention that enemy patterns were also very simple in that game... it really was never a very hard game, even at it's most challenging (and enemies sure as heck couldnt shoot your attacks out of the air)

This game though?   MOST of it is angled and constrained.   4-way aiming mostly works with that very open design;  I can think of many situations where enemies may not even be able to be hit with various entire spell classes simply because of the terrain.   And some spells probably just became worthless.    Any spell class that's got too many straight-shot spells is likely no longer worth using, also.   Actually, I can think of a few spell classes that I probably wont be using anymore with that change.

I dunno about other players, but I found myself using the angled aim *alot*.   Now, granted, I always always play at high difficulties in games like this.... perhaps lower ones, it's not as necessary.    But generally my experience is that to get through any given area without getting hit, likely, I'm going to NEED to fire at an angle at SOMETHING.   And some enemies, depending on the terrain, cant even be hit any other way.   Or even just depending on their patterns/positions (squids, balloons), as well as the caliber.   Being forced to bring something like a snake or homing spell into most areas doesnt sound like a very good thing.



Again though, need more testing, but these are just some initial thoughts, so keep that in mind when reading them.  I dont think any of this is going to break the game or anything, mostly I just think some classes and spell types might simply not work with that new setup.   I'll give the game a full go later tonight.   Not sure if I'll start a new world or not, I might.   


Also I like the idea of the death penalty bit, among other things.   Though, might that lead to players getting stuck in some situations?   I'm thinking of research facilities here and the occaisional really screwy cave slice.  But I like the sound of it overall.   I've thought the game needed SOME sort of death penalty since the start.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 09:02:27 pm by Misery »

Offline x4000

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Offline madcow

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .708 "Aggressive Angles" Released!
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2013, 09:19:11 pm »
The wind storm addition looks very cool by the way.

I shall miss you storm dash! I get why it's gone though, and can only hope later content (if the game does well) adds more dash like spells.