Author Topic: The Power-Coding Sprint Is Over -- So What's The Agenda Now?  (Read 8795 times)

Offline x4000

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The Power-Coding Sprint Is Over -- So What's The Agenda Now?
« on: December 16, 2011, 09:37:36 am »
Original: http://christophermpark.blogspot.com/2011/12/power-coding-spring-is-over-so-whats.html

For the last week, we've been working on power-coding.  That took us through multiplayer sync models and enemy/character stats balance, to a whole new health subsystem, to the addition of continents and a whole new mana subsystem, to a new mission system, and finally ending up with the removal of tiers, the complete revamping of crafting, and the transition of the strategic map functions into the mission system.  Whew!  Busy week.

During that power coding period, we were essentially asking people to hold the bulk of their commentary until we got through with the power coding.  We'd been in a huge design phase for a week or two prior, talking with players in the brainstorming subforum about a lot of different things. After all that talk, a lot of things had firmed up and it was time to actually implement!  Which meant we had to take a step back from design for a while, and couldn't get sucked into long discussions if we had any hope of meeting our power-coding goals.

Now that the power-coding is done, we're pretty much back to our regularly-scheduled programming style.  Essentially, where we mix together design, coding, bugfixes, new features, and enhancements to existing features.  There area few specific issues I'd like to make a note about, however:

Enemy Balance/Difficulty, Mana System Stats Balance
This is something that we know isn't right at the moment.  The power-coding phase got us a lot closer, and players are reporting that this is way more fun and interesting (and challenging) than before, but it's definitely not yet polished.  This is definitely something we want feedback on!

Civ Level Relative To Region Level Balance
Right now, when you go up one region level relative to your civ level (so, you go to a level 5 region when you are level 4), the difficulty is increasing about 100%.  This is something that we're doing because of how the missions are designed to play out, and it's something that I want to leave in the short term.

We need more meat on the mission system bones before we can really evaluate if this is working as intended or not.  If we get to that point and it still isn't feeling right then we'll change it up, but for now this is working as intended.

EXP Balance
Right now, minibosses and microbosses are still granting EXP, and EXP containers are still scattered out in the wild.  Once the mission system comes better into its own, those sources of EXP will be going away, and only missions, overlords, and lieutenants will be granting EXP.

New Warp System
There was a brainstorming thread on potential new warp systems even back before we started power-coding, but that was basically one change too many at the time.  Now this is going to be a focus again, probably with some form of Warp Statues that you can freely warp between in a region (once you've visited them), but without the current style of freeform warp.

We already took a few steps down the path of making the world feel more sizable by making the missions not allow warping in them at all, but then having a form of warp stone that takes you directly to the mission exit upon successful completion of the mission.  That's something that, at the moment, we plan to keep indefinitely.

But not needing to have warp potions out in the wild would be a great thing, I think, and players have been pointing out the merits of making some terrain traversal necessary rather than being "too convenient."  It's an interesting thread above, if you are inclined to read and comment.

The "Feel" Of Exploration, Specifically On The World Map
As has been pointed out by a few players, some of the feel of freeform exploration has been lost with the addition of the new mission system.  Because of this, we're getting all sorts of suggestions on various ways to put back the feel of exploration, such as making missions optional, adding implicit missions, adding a fog of war to the continents, redesigning the entire flow of region levels... etc.

Whoa, folks!  This is an area that is basically right in my wheelhouse, so to speak.  For the moment this isn't actually one I particularly want any feedback on, because while in the short term exploration has indeed taken a hit, we already have plans on how to put it back better than it was before.  Once we have those things in place we'll welcome commentary, but right now this particular aspect of the game is in too much transition for anyone to make much commentary on it.

Things that need to happen before we'll be soliciting feedback on this:
1. We need to get a really solid core of missions in place.
2. We need to get some of the planned "secret missions" in place.
3. We need to get crests and other elite loot in place (traps, other outfitter-type stuff, etc).

There might be a few other things as well that we also need (possibly some seafaring exploration for small hidden islands, etc), but the above should give us a solid core that will once again really reward exploration in a way that currently it isn't.  Suffice it to say, we have plans upon plans for all sorts of cool ways to make exploration feel awesome -- it's one of my favorite things about any adventure game -- but I'm in no way wanting to reevaluate region levels, missions, or fog of war at the moment.

Crests Are Coming.  Soon.
These have been one of those mythical features that we've been talking about for what seems like forever.  We actually had them working in the game at one point, and they sorta kinda work in some dev builds even now.  As noted above, these will be some elite loot that you can find.

Enchants
The whole idea of enchants is something that we've revised a lot from our original plans.  Emit Light is the first example of an enchant that is already in the game, actually, but at the moment it's all very freeform and nonstructured.  You put on emit light and it lasts a certain amount of time, then you put it on again.  Yawn.

What we'll actually be doing once we add some more enchants, is making it so that each enchant can only go into a certain Enchant Slot on your character.  You'll have a finite number of enchant slots, and each one would have a certain type.  So you might have a movement enchant type, which would let you run faster or jump higher, etc.

And you might have a couple of body enchant slots, which could hold a light source or some sort of defensive modifiers.  Suddenly ball of light and the other light sources actually have some attractiveness, versus emit light beating them all out, right?  Emit light would mean only one defensive enchant rather than two, potentially.

Anyway, some of the details are still not firmed up, but that's the generality of what we're planning on enchants now.

More Missions, New Mission Content!
This is a really huge one, and something we're going to be focused a lot on soon.  Right now we only have three types of missions, and all of them use the exact same mechanics.  We're going to have not only more kinds of missions, but new mechanics for existing ones and new ones.

This is the "putting the meat on the bones" that I was talking about above.  Once a lot of this is done, then that's when we'll make the EXP changes.

Old Strategic Map Functions Carried Forward Into Missions In New Ways
Consciousness shard nodes and vortex pylons and all that.  We're going to be revamping how those work, and pulling them into the missions framework.  Keith and I have a design call today to talk about some of those specific things, actually.

Citybuilding Interface Revamp
This is something that Keith and I are also going to be talking more about today, but the core idea is that you won't be placing buildings directly or any of that sort of thing.  You'll still be able to get to the citybuilding screen as sort of a status-of-your-settlement screen, as well as potentially a way to make some more indirect changes to your civilization.  But a lot of what used to be directly handled via a point-and-click interface on this screen will instead be handled through missions.

Permadeath
This is something we're still brainstorming, although the recent changes to the game have made death more significant again in some ways.  Permadeath has always been a part of the game, but the issue we're brainstorming is how to make it feel more significant and poignant.

More Monsters, New Environmental Hazards, More Spells
In order for there to be a proper reward structure, and in order for there to be a proper escalating threat that requires the reward structure, we need more content!

Other Miscellany
There are lots of other things on our list, too.  Monster weakspots.  Multiplayer position smoothing.   Multi-part monsters.  And so on and so forth.

So, That's The Agenda
The above list is going to be pretty much what we're focusing on between now and 1.0, which means that this is pretty much the overall agenda between now and sometime in February, when we'll hit more of a polish phase if we hope to release in March.  We'll see what actually happens -- we all know how schedules tend to be -- but it's a good list, I think.
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Offline Ixiohm

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Re: The Power-Coding Sprint Is Over -- So What's The Agenda Now?
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2011, 06:35:34 am »
A good list indeed :) But I wonder, with the memory crystals lifted out in the latest release I came to think 'What about the personas?' It was some time since I saw any update on personas and I can't see them mentioned in this list, are they still planned for 1.0?

Offline x4000

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Re: The Power-Coding Sprint Is Over -- So What's The Agenda Now?
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2011, 09:24:03 am »
Ah, glad you mentioned that -- actually, for now, we've cut personas and the tactical battles stuff.  That was just one bridge too far at the moment, taking us away from the core of what the game is and adding scope distraction.  Post 1.0 there will be all sorts of other things we can focus on as well, depending on what we and players are interested in seeing at the time, but for 1.0 we're trying to make the core experience as awesome as possible.
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Offline Ixiohm

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Re: The Power-Coding Sprint Is Over -- So What's The Agenda Now?
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2011, 09:45:03 am »
Understandable, thanks for the update. I think the game already feels much more streamlined and fun, it's a big difference from how it was before the power-coding phase. Looking forward to more missions, enemies, spells and loot; I hope to soon get hit by a new avalanche of content ;) Keep up the good work!

Offline x4000

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Re: The Power-Coding Sprint Is Over -- So What's The Agenda Now?
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2011, 09:45:45 am »
Thanks!  And we'll do our best to hit you with precisely that. :)
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Offline Echo35

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Re: The Power-Coding Sprint Is Over -- So What's The Agenda Now?
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2011, 11:44:25 am »
I fired the game up and made a new world and played a bit for the first time since... I dunno, a long time ago :P The game definitely feels more like an actual game now, with a focus, the nice little tutorial area and such, but there's something missing. Not sure what but it just doesn't feel as fun anymore. I'll have to play more later to see if I can really put my finger on it. Also, I still really have the quick bar. Can we PLEASE have a Terraria style scroll through or something? It's really hard to balance a ton of different spells in the middle of combat when I can only use number keys.

Offline x4000

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Re: The Power-Coding Sprint Is Over -- So What's The Agenda Now?
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2011, 11:46:06 am »
Never played Terraria so I don't know what quick scroll through is, but you can scroll rows with F1 and you can scroll what the LMB corresponds to with a keybind that is by default unbound.
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Offline Echo35

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Re: The Power-Coding Sprint Is Over -- So What's The Agenda Now?
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2011, 11:58:59 am »
Never played Terraria so I don't know what quick scroll through is, but you can scroll rows with F1 and you can scroll what the LMB corresponds to with a keybind that is by default unbound.

Kind of that actually. In Terraria you can scroll through your quick bar stuff with the mouse wheel or use the numbers. I think that sort of thing should be bound by default here, but I'll try it out and see if it helps. Also, one that that's always really bothered me with AVWW, but more so now with the spell reworks... is there any reason mine-able stuff and monster spawners have to have so much HP? Fire Touch is used to kill them/harvest materials, and if you're using said spell to perform said action, it seems kinda silly that I have to sit there and click 6 times to mine something when that's pretty much it's only purpose, especially in that context. I mean, in games like Minecraft or Terraria, you are compelled to make better tools in order to mine things quicker (Or in some cases at all), so is there some sort of better harvest spell or things that fire touch can't harvest? If not, than why not make it a one or two shot?

Offline Toll

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Re: The Power-Coding Sprint Is Over -- So What's The Agenda Now?
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2011, 12:02:59 pm »
I can agree on the mineral/gem deposits. When it comes to monster spawners though, I very much like the fact that they're not one-hit kills; that would take a lot of challenge away (I remember one instance where I basically had to run in, hit the spawner a few times and run back out before the skelebots came after me. Sure, I was playing up a level (or two?) at that time, but still.

Offline x4000

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Re: The Power-Coding Sprint Is Over -- So What's The Agenda Now?
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2011, 12:05:16 pm »
In practice, most players seemed to find the switching of the mouse binding incredibly confusing because you can use many mouse buttons rather than just LMB.  So we unbound it by default, given the amount of angst it was causing.

In terms of mining, I'd say that a) it's not terribly frequent that you need to do it, b) there are indeed better spells you can unlock to make it go quicker, and c) when things die in one hit to a basic spell, it just feels really wrong and paper-thin in a lot of ways.  I'm not saying that the balance is perfect at the moment, but I think it's closer than it's ever been.

Regarding monster spawners, changes are coming to that anyhow, you won't be seeing them in the wild, etc.

In terms of the overall fun factor, bear in mind we're still in a very transitional state.  At the moment exploration is kind of gutted, and last time you played that was all there was.  At the same time we have the bare bones of a new mission system which I think you'll find really fun, but it's not going to be fun until we get more done on it.
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Offline Echo35

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Re: The Power-Coding Sprint Is Over -- So What's The Agenda Now?
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2011, 12:08:21 pm »
In terms of mining, I'd say that a) it's not terribly frequent that you need to do it, b) there are indeed better spells you can unlock to make it go quicker, and c) when things die in one hit to a basic spell, it just feels really wrong and paper-thin in a lot of ways.  I'm not saying that the balance is perfect at the moment, but I think it's closer than it's ever been.

I don't mean things in general, I'm strictly talking monster spawners (Which you say are changing anyhow) and gem veins, rocks, trees, etc. They should die fairly quickly. I'm going through the tutorial area now and it's taking loner than it should mining everything because I'm draining my entire mana bar just clicking 6 or 7 times on a single gem vein or rock outcrop.

Oh, and you can't seem to bind the mouse scroll to anything, not sure if that's intentional or not.

Offline Hyfrydle

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Re: The Power-Coding Sprint Is Over -- So What's The Agenda Now?
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2011, 12:15:31 pm »
I have to agree with the multiple clicking for mining it's very annoying even though it only happens once in a while. Maybe as has been suggested before a key for harvest should be used.

Also with the latest update I don't feel any need to enter the caves I can level up through missions where before I used to take on the bosses in the caves. I guess something is planned for the caves at least I hope so as I enjoyed that part of the game before all the big changes.

Finally played MP last night on Tolls server first time snce the big changes and it was a real blast the only thing that spoilt it was bats especially ice bats that seemed much too tough and spawned in massive numbers. I'm sure the other players would back me up on this. The boss rooms were filled with ghosts and ectoplasm. Taking out monster spawners helped but they took a ton of hits and the bats were relentless.

Offline Echo35

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Re: The Power-Coding Sprint Is Over -- So What's The Agenda Now?
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2011, 12:38:07 pm »
Well, my playing of the game came to a quick close. I fell down a hole in a mission area, made a wooden platform, jumped on it, and now I can't jump at all, nor can I warp while in a mission area :P So I guess I'll wait a bit, don't feel like restarting.

Offline Underfot

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Re: The Power-Coding Sprint Is Over -- So What's The Agenda Now?
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2011, 12:42:03 pm »
... especially ice bats that seemed much too tough and spawned in massive numbers. I'm sure the other players would back me up on this. The boss rooms were filled with ghosts and ectoplasm. Taking out monster spawners helped but they took a ton of hits and the bats were relentless.

Yeah, any room that had more than four bats in it could do you in pretty quick.  I was even having difficulties in outdoor areas with multiple bats.  Part of it is balance of course, but also the new synchronous multiplayer makes small targets hard to hit (as X4000 and Keith predicted).

Offline Toll

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Re: The Power-Coding Sprint Is Over -- So What's The Agenda Now?
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2011, 12:49:43 pm »
Well, my playing of the game came to a quick close. I fell down a hole in a mission area, made a wooden platform, jumped on it, and now I can't jump at all, nor can I warp while in a mission area :P So I guess I'll wait a bit, don't feel like restarting.
That's a known bug if you place the platform right next to a wall or similar. Try placing it further away and see if that helps!

It does raise an interesting point though... In every other instance, you can get out of a sticky situation by warping. The only way out in missions would be to abandon the character though. Good/bad?