Author Topic: The Keyboard Challenge  (Read 3245 times)

Offline Bluddy

  • Sr. Member Mark III
  • ****
  • Posts: 434
The Keyboard Challenge
« on: April 26, 2012, 09:45:13 pm »
Hey guys. As some of you might know, I've long since pushed for a keyboard configuration for people who are having trouble with the default mouse configuration. If you have a laptop, or if you don't have a mouse with many buttons, I feel like control is more fluid when you use keyboard-only mode.

However, recently I've gone back to playing a little with mouse mode, and I've become convinced that keyboard mode is just BETTER. Why? Because not only does it allow for very good control of your jumps, it also limits you in productive ways. Instead of just clicking on your target and hitting it right away, you have to line up your sights. You have to manipulate your position to aim. And you can't just run away from enemies and shoot them backwards. In my opinion, combat becomes much more interesting when you use the keyboard, because you can't just hit enemies wherever they are. Also, you need different spells to effectively hit enemies in different positions. Limitation is the key to good gameplay, and it seems to me that the limitations from using the keyboard make combat much more intense and tighter-feeling.

So my challenge to you is, if you're playing with the mouse, switch to keyboard-only mode for 30 minutes. Fight some combat in the game, then give me your opinion below. Realize that it'll limit you and initially you may be annoyed that you can't hit the enemies wherever they are, but it should also make you jump around more and think deeper about your position vis a vis the enemies'.

If you game on a desktop, my recommendation is to move with WASD and fire with the numpad keys (I think these are default assignments). You can easily access all spells this way. If you game on a laptop, I recommend moving with the arrow keys and assigning the spells to Q,W,E,A,S,D,Z,X,C for 9 slots and 1 for the last slot.

Oh, and feel free to scroll the mouse to the 9th position, where you can put platforms in 9 and boxes in 0. This will allow you to still place platforms and boxes wherever you want.

Offline Penumbra

  • Sr. Member Mark III
  • ****
  • Posts: 464
Re: The Keyboard Challenge
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2012, 09:51:55 pm »
Ok, fine. You've worn me down like a certain emerald colored breakfast dish. If you will let me be,
I will try them. You will see.  ;D

Offline KingIsaacLinksr

  • Master Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,332
  • A Paladin Without A Crusade...
Re: The Keyboard Challenge
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2012, 10:10:32 pm »
I'm a bit too hardcore keyboard + mouse sort of person to make this transition ;)

King
Casual reviewer with a sense of justice.
Visit the Arcen Mantis to help: https://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/
A Paladin's Blog. Long form videogame reviews focusing on mechanics and narrative analyzing. Plus other stuff. www.kingisaaclinksr.com

Offline Bluddy

  • Sr. Member Mark III
  • ****
  • Posts: 434
Re: The Keyboard Challenge
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2012, 10:16:51 pm »
I'm a bit too hardcore keyboard + mouse sort of person to make this transition ;)

King

30 minutes King! That's all I'm asking for, 30 minutes and give me your feedback. Just give it a shot!

Offline KingIsaacLinksr

  • Master Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,332
  • A Paladin Without A Crusade...
Re: The Keyboard Challenge
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2012, 10:19:30 pm »
I'm a bit too hardcore keyboard + mouse sort of person to make this transition ;)

King

30 minutes King! That's all I'm asking for, 30 minutes and give me your feedback. Just give it a shot!

Erk, it'll require some jiggering of my key-bindings setup, but I'll try it out when I get on AVWW later tonight.  Can't resist a challenge ;).

King
Casual reviewer with a sense of justice.
Visit the Arcen Mantis to help: https://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/
A Paladin's Blog. Long form videogame reviews focusing on mechanics and narrative analyzing. Plus other stuff. www.kingisaaclinksr.com

Offline Professor Paul1290

  • Sr. Member Mark II
  • ****
  • Posts: 395
Re: The Keyboard Challenge
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2012, 01:28:14 am »
I actually prefer keyboard-only for a lot of side-scrollers and shmups.

I don't prefer it for this game though, despite having tried it. I do see why some people might actually like it better if they gave it a chance though.

Offline Mánagarmr

  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,272
  • if (isInRange(target)) { kill(target); }
Re: The Keyboard Challenge
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2012, 06:23:03 am »
Once I get my new keyboard, I'll definitely will try this.
Click here to get started with Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports.

Thank you for contributing to making the game better!

Offline zebramatt

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,574
Re: The Keyboard Challenge
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2012, 07:23:10 am »
I've been tempted for a while to try this out with a... (dramatic pause)... gamepad!

Offline Bluddy

  • Sr. Member Mark III
  • ****
  • Posts: 434
Re: The Keyboard Challenge
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2012, 09:23:01 am »
I actually prefer keyboard-only for a lot of side-scrollers and shmups.

I don't prefer it for this game though, despite having tried it. I do see why some people might actually like it better if they gave it a chance though.

Could you explain why you don't like it for this game?

I've become gradually convinced that there are serious gameplay differences between the modes. Not being able to shoot at any angle is a limitation (and limitations are the source of good gameplay, see http://jonshaferondesign.com/2012/04/03/make-a-better-game-limit-the-player/). It allows you to miss a lot more and requires careful aim, making the combat more fun. It justifies having many different spell patterns (like for close quarters). And it doesn't allow you to shoot backwards, which reduces the ability to spam a fairly cheap tactic that kills most enemies. It also requires you to actively move around constantly and be in perfect control of your location. Is there a reason you think mouse is better?

Regarding the gamepad, I think using the gamepad should be a similar experience, which is why I'm willing to include it in the challenge. I don't think you can shoot backwards with the gamepad, can you? And you also need to do real aiming, as opposed to just clicking on your target.

Offline madcow

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,153
Re: The Keyboard Challenge
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2012, 09:29:15 am »
Since I play on a laptop, I hate having to use the trackpad precisely for any length of time, and don't always have a mouse handy to hook up - so I've been playing it all keyboard and like it that way. I do occasionally use tab targeting, but not always.

Offline Bluddy

  • Sr. Member Mark III
  • ****
  • Posts: 434
Re: The Keyboard Challenge
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2012, 10:54:37 am »
I'm waiting for the feedback from those who took the challenge...

Also, if you haven't tried the keyboard challenge, you really should.

I'm convinced the game is significantly better with the keyboard/gamepad: it's much harder to hit certain enemy types like bats and burrowers, making different spell types a necessity for dealing with them; hitting enemies is not guaranteed; you have easy access to as many spells as you want; and the combat gets more complicated and better in just about every way. So why not give it a try?

Offline KingIsaacLinksr

  • Master Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,332
  • A Paladin Without A Crusade...
Re: The Keyboard Challenge
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2012, 01:41:44 pm »
I'm waiting for the feedback from those who took the challenge...

Also, if you haven't tried the keyboard challenge, you really should.

I'm convinced the game is significantly better with the keyboard/gamepad: it's much harder to hit certain enemy types like bats and burrowers, making different spell types a necessity for dealing with them; hitting enemies is not guaranteed; you have easy access to as many spells as you want; and the combat gets more complicated and better in just about every way. So why not give it a try?

Been too busy to deal with the challenge, but I'll try it out later today.

King
Casual reviewer with a sense of justice.
Visit the Arcen Mantis to help: https://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/
A Paladin's Blog. Long form videogame reviews focusing on mechanics and narrative analyzing. Plus other stuff. www.kingisaaclinksr.com

Offline khadgar

  • Full Member Mark II
  • ***
  • Posts: 192
Re: The Keyboard Challenge
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2012, 04:11:57 pm »
Okay Bluddy, I just tried it. While I believe you that it provides a different gameplay experience, (not that I ever doubted that fact), it's not as fun for me. The game just isn't designed with 8 directions of fire in mind. It worked fine on the surface, and in buildings, but in caves I was hosed. I did like the ease of access for a greater number of spells at my fingertips, by virtue of having two hands worth of keys to work with, but it wasn't worth it for me.

It's a keyboard & mouse game.

Side note: I have also tried it with my 360 controller, and I preferred this strongly to the keyboard only setup, because of the analog stick aiming. I didn't have enough spells though, so it was a no go. Need more buttons!

Offline Bluddy

  • Sr. Member Mark III
  • ****
  • Posts: 434
Re: The Keyboard Challenge
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2012, 04:34:18 pm »
Khadgar, could you be specific about what the problem was in caves? Because I can't think of any obvious problem.

EDIT: BTW I agree that the game wasn't designed with 8 directions in mind, but my experience is that it works better. The real problem is that the game wasn't designed with any specific input in mind, which is why it can't be optimized to any input method. As an example, each of the devs uses a different control method.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2012, 04:36:44 pm by Bluddy »

Offline Professor Paul1290

  • Sr. Member Mark II
  • ****
  • Posts: 395
Re: The Keyboard Challenge
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2012, 04:46:51 pm »
Could you explain why you don't like it for this game?

I don't know if I could provide a good answer given how nebulous this can be.

I think part of it might be that I think I already use a wider variety of spells than most and I tendency to go towards having a "better" position for shooting or dodging regardless of whether my current position already works.

So in a way I suppose some of the interesting challenges presented by keyboard control are ones I already impose on myself in some ways in the name of "protecting against the unexpected", if that makes any sense.