Author Topic: Submit your mission ideas!  (Read 4829 times)

Offline x4000

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Submit your mission ideas!
« on: February 14, 2012, 09:54:34 am »
So, as has been pointed out in another thread, missions are one of the things that this game is most in need of.  Right now it's "fight 3 bosses in the tower" or "win the battlefield mission."  Keith and I have about a dozen overall ideas for missions, but a lot of them are pretty vague and/or complicated.  We also have very concrete ideas for four missions that we're going to be working on this week.

There's nothing like the power of a group of people all thinking about the topic from a variety of angles, though, this we've learned.  So that's the question: what sort of mission ideas do folks have?

The rules:
--------------
1. We're open to any ideas, but if it's really complex or requires adding tons of new functionality for just this one mission, the chance of it happening anytime soon are effectively zero.
2. The best ideas will take existing game mechanics and use them in new and varied ways.  Adding in a few new mechanics as needed, of course (like the bases in the battlefield missions).
3. Even better ideas will work with a high degree of randomization -- ie, not requiring a specific enemy type or boss type, so that as enemies and bosses are added to the game, the mission becomes inherently more varied and interesting based on that.
4. If you don't mind putting your ideas in mantis, rather than just lumped in one thread here, that would be awesome -- that way each idea can be archived if it's not going to be done immediately, and it can be discussed in its own thread whether or not it is being implemented next week or next year.

Fire away! 
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Offline x4000

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Re: Submit your mission ideas!
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2012, 10:31:41 am »
Awesome! :)
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Offline Penumbra

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Re: Submit your mission ideas!
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2012, 11:42:25 am »
Could we have a new category in Mantis of "Suggestion - Mission"  ?

Offline x4000

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Re: Submit your mission ideas!
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2012, 11:53:08 am »
Great idea!  I've added that, and updated all the mission suggestions so far to match that. :)
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Offline Penumbra

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Re: Submit your mission ideas!
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2012, 12:11:32 pm »
Thanks! That really helps. 

I seem to like the idea of missions that have connections to other missions. Is this something that is in the realm of possibility for 1.0?

Offline x4000

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Re: Submit your mission ideas!
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2012, 12:20:49 pm »
Thanks! That really helps.

My pleasure!

I seem to like the idea of missions that have connections to other missions. Is this something that is in the realm of possibility for 1.0?

Not in the sense you mean it, I don't think -- each mission is an isolated thing that exists only when you are in it.  If you leave the mission and come back, an entirely different mission is created.  So something like finding clues to how to solve a mission by completing other missions would be out of the question even post 1.0, because the entire premise of the missions system doesn't support it.

That sort of "clues and ongoing progress trying to get into some area" mechanic is really more suited to the freeform exploration parts of the game, not the missions, so that sort of idea could manifest post-1.0, just not in missions themselves.  Missions are meant to be one-off challenges that you can never repeat exactly as they were the last time you went into them.  They're the sole non-persistent part of the world (though missions do persist while you are in them, of course).

All THAT said, there are more indirect things that are definitely possible even now:

1. Getting some sort of item or ability or what have you through freeform exploration or otherwise could make some missions possible.  I wouldn't just hand players the gills they need for a watery mission, I'd make them go find that somewhere else first.  That sort of thing would let there be, to some extent, "chains" of missions.  Each one is randomly rolled when you go into it, and disappears when you go out of it, but you need a series of items in order to complete the various missions in that general chain.  That sort of thing is very much possible right now, let alone by 1.0.

2. Having the result of a mission leave a persistent effect on the world is of course supported now, and even in place.  Right now you're getting NPCs or wind shelters or similar as a result of doing many missions; we aim to have other missions to get rid of the ice pirates, or to otherwise do things to weaken the overlord.  The problem with those sorts of missions, though, is that they require a lot of macrogame balance work: to weaken the overlord, we have to first make it so that he's extra strong.  Right now he's meant to be taken on his own terms, but as we get past 1.0 we want to make him really fortified so that you can't just go lone-gunning after him, but instead have to whittle down his forces through missions and guardian powers (THEN go lone-gunning, as now).  The current state would basically be what it would look like after you'd whittled him down.  I'm all for that sort of thing, Keith and I are both really excited about doing that, but the balance and testing cycle probably doesn't fit into pre-1.0 unless the mechanics are really simple.  I'm not yet sure on that one.

Hope that helps!
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Offline Penumbra

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Re: Submit your mission ideas!
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2012, 12:43:02 pm »
So, the find the clues kind of mission could only work if the clues spawned in random loot rooms in the world, and the mission wasn't entered until the players found them. But the clues couldn't be spawned in other missions.

Could the (admittedly poorly named) steal the loot mission work? It would generate different mobs based on whether or not different missions were still active. Nothing inside the mission would change after being generated.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Submit your mission ideas!
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2012, 12:51:20 pm »
The current structure isn't incompatible with mission-chains, we'd just have to define the individual mission types that would form the chain, define which one "leads to" the other as a prereq, which ones should not be seeded unless they've been "led to", and have the continent remember which mission types with a "lead to" have been completed but haven't had their follow-up spawned, and check for that when spawning new missions.

But making it physically possible is one thing; making it "make sense" why one leads to the other is another thing.  That would not fit into the 1.0 scope :)
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Offline x4000

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Re: Submit your mission ideas!
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2012, 12:55:18 pm »
So, the find the clues kind of mission could only work if the clues spawned in random loot rooms in the world, and the mission wasn't entered until the players found them. But the clues couldn't be spawned in other missions.

Well, that's not entirely true.  The problem is that the clues would have to be some sort of generic clues -- in other words, if you find "Clue #1" through Clue #6, you could find those anywhere in the world (outside of missions or in missions) and then bring them to any "Find the Clue" mission to solve it.  And I guess it would then take away all your clues, making you start over again for the next find the clue mission. 

The problem is, I don't think that would be too much incentive to do these missions, speaking as a player, because it relies on: a) being able to get all those clues, and then b) being able to actually find a find the clue mission to "spend" them on.  The other possible outcome is that I don't know what a find the clue mission is, and I enter it, and I am unable to proceed in any reasonable amount of time because I don't have the clues, and thus I'm incentivized to just brute force it.

I'm okay with some missions having impossible conditions if you enter them unprepared (no gills, so you drown if you are silly enough to jump in the water -- you learn fast not to do that again!).  But having it be possible but nonoptimal will just lead many players to brute force the solution, leading them to annoyance and complaining at me. ;)

I think that clues are more interesting if they are unique rather than generic, as well, meaning that sort of thing really would fit better completely outside of the mission structure.  That sort of general mechanic just doesn't "feel right" to me with missions.  Not all the gameplay is intended to be shoved into missions, remember -- more of the persistent exploration and "I found this thing, maybe I can come back later and solve it" sort of mechanics really would be aimed at the world itself.  Not prior to 1.0, but it is something I'd like to do.

Could the (admittedly poorly named) steal the loot mission work? It would generate different mobs based on whether or not different missions were still active. Nothing inside the mission would change after being generated.

That sort of thing would be possible, yes, but I should explain a bit more the mechanics that we have.  Basically, these would work like Ice Pirate Patrols, I think.  Those are what we call Macrogame Environmental Threats.  They are some sort of thing visible on the world map, and they threaten regions within a certain radius of themselves.  They aren't missions directly, but missions could pop up from time to time to let you eliminate them.  Also, guardian powers could be used to eliminate them.  And they might affect other missions to make them harder.

So, for instance, perhaps a better way to make this particular idea work in the current structure would be to have a ring of elemental-resistant monster "armies" that get placed in a ring around the overlord, or a lieutenant.  You can go into the overlord's keep without dealing with these, but you'll be seeing TONS more monsters with all these extra immunities.  Man will that be hard!  Instead it's a better idea to either do missions or use guardian powers to clear out those elemental armies, and then you just get back down to the base overlord difficulty.

In terms of having other macro-game locations like a rare commodity cache, or the site of some elite loot, that's something we'd want to do, but not prior to 1.0.  That affects too many things that we'd then have to balance.  So having a single Steal the Loot mission that's in the center of these armies wouldn't really work, because missions will start expiring soon and then it might move.  THAT said, any missions that did happen to spawn within range of one or more elemental armies would automatically get the extra enemies spawning in them, so that would actually work really well in terms of making nearby missions hard, and thus "linking" them in a very decoupled way.  If you're a programmer, kind of the difference between a DLL and a statically-linked library.
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Offline Penumbra

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Re: Submit your mission ideas!
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2012, 01:06:22 pm »
That is a great explanation, thanks. Having it be a map property affecting a range of squares is a wonderful solution, as it decouples the two modifiers. Instead of "these 4 missions are linked" it would instead affect a range of squares which may or may not contain other missions.

Much better and allows a greater range of dynamic content to be created.

I like the concept from some other games with "dynamic campaigns" where the player gets to decide to attack the ammo depot or the air strip, and then getting to have under-supplied enemies or a removal of enemy air support. AVWW brings whole new meaning to dynamic campaign, with much more room for emergent game play situations.

Smaller, looser defined effects work better as the building blocks than large, predefined set pieces. Those "grand encountered" will be the outcome of the sum of the parts. Kind of how every game of AI War seems to me to have a new and overarching plot line.

Offline x4000

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Re: Submit your mission ideas!
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2012, 01:10:13 pm »
Exactly what we're aiming at!  Very good summation, actually better than the one I wrote. :)
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Offline Penumbra

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Re: Submit your mission ideas!
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2012, 01:15:26 pm »
I have now submitted two new mission ideas to the Mantis server at my work. Our DR meeting this afternoon will be very interesting....

Offline x4000

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Re: Submit your mission ideas!
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2012, 01:18:01 pm »
Oh shoot!  :(

I really hope you're not going to be in trouble over that.
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Offline Penumbra

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Re: Submit your mission ideas!
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2012, 01:21:18 pm »
Nah, no trouble.  ;) It will just be, um, "different". I've gotten most of the people on my team to get AI War, and few have started AVWW. They will be an interesting artifact to be discovered whenever someone goes through the logs of deleted DRs.