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[MouldyK]

I torrent'd CnC Generals once, and it was fun to play. Then I started to read about all the mods and decided I wanted to buy the game for said mods as they didn't work with cracked versions. The same happen3d with Supreme Commander: FA, torrent'd it at first and kinda liked it, then started to read about peoples mods and bought the game because of them.

I also torrent movies a lot too, but I do plan on adding them to my DVD/Blu-ray collection... someday...

Bullfeces! 90% of the films you will never buy.

Also, the hell is up with that 3 in happened?


Also, I torrent games I have no intention to buy, such as Sonic Generations. But most of the time, the Steam Sale can just make me stop pirating games.

[LaughingThesaurus]

Oh shoot.

Okay, I haven't responded to you, Keith, because I like... at the time we were discussing it I was... personal things. Didn't want to think enough to put together a debate-y post. Then I just sorta forgot about it. And I feel like the time for the debate has actually passed, so... I'm going to stick with what I think. I'll be experiencing a game for what it is before investing in it by more or less any means. I'm drifting more towards actual game journalist coverage being what influences my purchases, as people like Total Biscuit tend to show off the game really, really effectively... to the point that the game almost doesn't need a demo. That's what got me buying Hell Yeah! without even trying the demo. I already knew I would like it, and already knew that it was a fantastic game, just from TB's coverage.
There might be something to be said for non-gamers, just players who tend to not be able to distinguish really great mechanics from terrible decisions, and I wouldn't know if that kind of thing is effective enough for them. They'd need someone who was identical to them to be like "Oh, I had fun. You'll have fun." most likely probably.

I dunno, I really don't have the money to waste on poor decisions, but I'll endeavor to respect the developers' property as much as possible regardless.

[Panopticon]

I depend on the opinions of certain people on another forum that I've been active on for like forever. There are people there with excellent opinions on games and that is the majority of what we discuss, and quite a few of them have enough money to take risks on games then pass their informed opinions on to those of us who live in tighter circumstances.

I think the idea of taking the liberty of downloading something against the wishes of everyone involved in creating the product is pretty selfish.

[Mánagarmr]

I sometimes take risks. Often I end up regretting them bitterly.

[LaughingThesaurus]

My point of view stands on "if it sells them the game, who's really complaining?" That said demoing a game that way is certainly the last resort.

[KingIsaacLinksr]

My point of view stands on "if it sells them the game, who's really complaining?" That said demoing a game that way is certainly the last resort.

That's the problem. Its far too easy to pirate the game to demo and then say "oh, its ok, but not worth it to buy" and then you finish it. While I'm not saying you do that, far too many use that excuse to justify piracy and not pay anything at all.

[zebramatt]

I'll consider pirating a game if its age and lack of publisher backing means the only other option open to me is to buy it on the second hand market for an inflated cost and/or long delivery time.

GOG is making those cases increasingly rare, mind you.

[keith.lamothe]

My point of view stands on "if it sells them the game, who's really complaining?

How many and/or which people complaining would motivate you to not pirate-demo?  Or is not actually a question of who does or does not complain?

[LaughingThesaurus]

@Isaac: My point is that I don't ever do that. I can't bring myself to finish a game that I just don't like, and I can't just not buy a game if I really like it. I'll feel like a terrible person if I do. I think anybody who would take piracy to the level of finishing the game, then lying about the fact that they liked it enough to pay for it, are not even remotely justified.

@Keith: What I need is really good coverage of a game, be that a demo, the developers being very open about their product, or channels like TotalBiscuit's, where I can get relatively impartial views on any game I might consider buying from an experienced gamer. The biggest deal to me is, I don't want to get burned by a bad investment. I mean, you can't get refunds (and I would feel legitimately bad trying to ask for one of those) and your judgement is often clouded by marketing jargon like the claims of bajillions of guns, or dozens of hours of multiplayer content, or even just flashy trailers. I've been driven to just not trust a lot of developers, chief among them being triple-A developers.

A little side story: What brought me here was actually my friend on the Christmas sale. He got an AI War coupon for 66% off of the Alien Bundle, or something awesome like that. I figured, you know, that's a really low price and... really, if it's such great AI and I really can set my own pace, I think I'll be able to enjoy the game. It was low-risk, and you guys were so open about what the game is about that I couldn't possibly make a mistake there. I trusted that AVWW would be awesome because of its particularly nice demo, and that led me to actually pre-order it with my last scrap of money that semester. That kind of behavior really drives me to look upon what else you guys do with a great deal more faith. With how much value for money I've gotten, and how easy it was to make my decision, I never felt like there was a question about whether I would like the game or not.

But then, on the negative side of things, I've gotten some really, really awful games. No sugar-coating it, I've made terrible purchases and just never played the game since. Biggest deal probably is Bulletstorm, but that one really was my own bad. I didn't realize it had GFWL breaking it to no end. The game was fun, but there was that horrendous game-breaking issue that led to hours of fighting with my computer just to shoot some dudes. Saint's Row 2 is broken beyond belief on PC. Grand Theft Auto IV is a game that I couldn't even run for the longest time. A lot of the RTS industry has invented these AIs that are expert one-trick ponies and I didn't want to go investing in Warhammer 40k: Dawn of War II Retribution without knowing that the AI would give me a chance to breathe (and believe me, there's no documentation I could find on the subject). Even Diablo 3 and its variety of items and skills had me excited until I tried the actual game on my brother's account and came to realize it would be a waste of my time and money. A lot of these are really big-name titles, that cost a whole lot of money, and for some reason or another they've caused me more harm than good.
So... who would have to complain? I sympathize with the developers that I trust. The ones that I don't trust, I don't care for at all. You've made me budge enough that I trust a select few high-quality gaming commentators. If I'm not sure, I'm more likely to just not touch the game at all, anymore. I don't want to get hurt, but I don't want to feel bad. Whoever doesn't care about selling something to me in a legitimate, straightforward way simply will not get any money at all. I don't care for hundreds of skills and millions of builds and literally infinite scenarios. I don't want to hear that stuff. I want the honest information on how the game plays.
It's probably a better message if the developers who aren't open and honest just don't have a shot at my money at all... but by all means I will respect the developers who have been awesome.

[keith.lamothe]

@LaughingThesaurus: I'm glad you've thought it through some more.  My point isn't to make you feel bad about choosing to download game X under circumstances Y, but to make you really think about what you're doing.  I sympathize with your situation in that I have limited money, even more limited time, and very limited faith in the trustworthiness of some publishers/etc.  But sometimes I really want to give a game like that a shot, because it sounds cool.  Sometimes that's possible, sometimes not.  It's just important to not get into the habit of doing something without examining it from a "what does this say about me?" perspective.  Doesn't mean you have to be perfect

[LaughingThesaurus]

I really don't want to paint myself as a bad person, either.

Something about me, and this is something I struggle with elsewhere as well, is that I find myself almost too straightforward sometimes. Not that I find myself insulting my friends with terribly harsh criticism, more of that when I deal with people, I don't lie or hide things often. There are times where I have care or concern for my friends, or we get on weird topics, where people actually get put off by how I try to treat people. I treat people I like very well, and people I don't like I try to ignore. Apparently this is taken the wrong way far too often, but never by my usual circle of friends, so... people who aren't great friends end up thinking I am hitting on them, dumbest thing in the world. More often than not, those people aren't a part of my life any more after that since I'm not changing how I approach people. It still works, and my actual friends usually don't find me creepy.
I get used to people kinda looking at me for who they know that I am, but not for how they perceive my actions at face value. This is thanks to my friends, I suppose, and it might be why I didn't think so much about "What does this say about me?"