Spell Balance

[x4000]

That one went right over my head, sorry.

[Underfot]

You can't cut Environ Logging's funding! You will regret this!

SC2000, nice.  I still resent never getting to build arcologies...

On topic; is this a good place to discuss trap damage relative to spell damage?  Last time I used a bear trap it was lacking teeth, if you'll pardon the pun.

[x4000]

Those got buffed relatively recently, but in general traps need to be made more substantial.

[KDR_11k]

Hm, plasma bolt seems to be extremely mana inefficient now with a cost that's almost the same as the fireball (35 vs 38) but a damage that's way lower (a T2 plasma bolt is weaker than a T1 fireball).

[x4000]

Hm, plasma bolt seems to be extremely mana inefficient now with a cost that's almost the same as the fireball (35 vs 38) but a damage that's way lower (a T2 plasma bolt is weaker than a T1 fireball).

Yes, but you can fire it almost twice as fast.  So that makes it's purpose to get in quick, fire a lot of rapid shots, then get away and recharge.

[BobTheJanitor]

Would it be possible to put damage per second and damage per mana calculations on spells? Maybe not everyone cares about it, but I love poring over that kind of data. I always was a bit of a min-maxer.

[x4000]

Sure, that seems reasonable to me.  Do you really want damage-per-mana, though?  What about DPS and DPS-per-mana instead?

[Terraziel]

Sure, that seems reasonable to me.  Do you really want damage-per-mana, though?  What about DPS and DPS-per-mana instead?

Well personally when investigating spell balance to start the thread I checked damage per mana, and DPS so i'd agree with BobTheJanitor. Indeed DPS-per-mana never even crossed my mind as a question.

[BobTheJanitor]

If I'm thinking correctly, I think both would be useful. A big hard hitting spell with a long cooldown (although there isn't much like that at the moment, but maybe one day) might have good DPM but miserable DPS. So I think it's probably worth getting both data points.

[Terraziel]

Having had a quick look, per mana, and DPS-per-mana seem to be the most indicative ones. having the two DPS is probably unneccesary

EDIT: As a couple of examples Launch rock and launch meteor have identical DPS and DPS-per-mana but launch meteor has double the damage per mana.

and comparing fireball and plama bolt, fireball has a 50% hire damage per but they have near identical DPS-per-mana, with DPS being different by about 12%.

In the end Damage per mana helps distinguish the first two, and DPS-per-mana helps prove the last two aren't as different as you might expect.

[BobTheJanitor]

DPS per mana isn't sinking in to my thick skull. DPS is a stat for when you want to kill things fast, but DPM would be for when you want to kill things efficiently. It would probably help if I wasn't at work and I could sit down and fiddle with some numbers until I understand why you'd want to combine the two.

Oh, and if these stats can update on the fly when you equip different enchants, that would be the best thing ever.

[Terraziel]

Oh, and if these stats can update on the fly when you equip different enchants, that would be the best thing ever.

The current stats already do, I almost wept with joy when i noticed. No one ever does that, no matter how much you tell them that showing the unadjusted numbers is pointless.

Edit: Though i have just noticed it doesn't apply to mana costs. Which is a bit strange.

[x4000]

We would definitely make sure those updated on the fly -- I didn't recall that there were any enchants that adjusted mana costs, though.  If that's the case, then it's just something I need to re-plumb a bit.  The stats that are shown normally "just work" in terms of showing the adjusted values, because we're using the actual values that are used for combat calculations themselves.  Except, apparently, in that edge case.

For DPS, DPM, and DPSPM, check me on this math:

DPS: attack / cooldown
DPSPM: DPS / mana
DPM (not shown above): attack / mana

Obviously the first and third are straightforward, but my brain is having a fuzzy moment with the DPSPM, wondering if that's actually useful calculated that way.  Thoughts?

[Terraziel]

For DPS, DPM, and DPSPM, check me on this math:

DPS: attack / cooldown
DPSPM: DPS / mana
DPM (not shown above): attack / mana

Obviously the first and third are straightforward, but my brain is having a fuzzy moment with the DPSPM, wondering if that's actually useful calculated that way.  Thoughts?

Yeah, it is definitely useful, assuming you have some data in front of you compare Creeping death and Tidal Pulse. To me definitely confirms DPM and DPSPM as the most important ones.

[x4000]

All right, I'll make sure all of those get added in, in that case!