Spell and class discussion.

[madcow]

I'm kind of surprised that we haven't seen a thread like this, so here it is. The spell and class discussion thread. If you're going to mention a mage class, it would be helpful to mention what tier it's at as well. As saying "fire mage" is pretty vague, saying "tier 1 fire mage" is pretty specific though.

My own thoughts here aren't very organized a little stream of consciousness for you.

Honestly, I would need to go back into the game to look up the class names before I could give a lot of feedback here. Offhand though, I've found that the rocket spells are over poweringly too strong. Many of the ammo spells are on the strong side as well - they ought to be strong, but you shouldn't be able to hold the button down to instagib a boss.

I find the drone spells very weird, does anybody like them? I've found a few uses for them, but in general they tend to mess me up. Fusillade spells feel the weird as well, they can be good sometimes to shoot around enemy shots.

The DPS seems to be about the same, without much caliber to them.

The snake spells are fun. Touch spells are fun now too after their caliber buff. Ricochet spells are interesting, I like them.

The Tornamancer's (tier 3) Storm Fist I absolutely love - it's like an extra jump combined with a touch spell. I'm not sure if it was intended you use it as a double jump, but it's quite fun that way.

The featherologist (tier 2) I wish I could like as well. Having both the drone and fusillade spell together just leaves me a bit meh. Meanwhile they the jetpack is quite amusing.

The littorist (tier 2) and terminist (tier 2) are both favorite classes for that tier. I like that the littorist has base spells that are a little weak - but an ammo spell that is fairly strong. Though the spamability of that spell could likely use a nerf. The terminist is great for that one-two combination of a high caliber shot and a high damage shot in the primary and secondary slots.

The smoglet spells (shoots both in front and behind you) are probably too strong. Very fast attack rate, attacks in both directions (makes kiting easily possible) and high damage. I would recommend a cooldown increase on them.

The crescent spells are likewise too strong. Very high damage, spamable, and a high caliber means they make a great offense and defense both. It would be interesting if there was a delay before it went off, so that it was still a strong spell but required more timing to use.

I've found mines/bombs both useless. Has anybody gotten any good use out of them?

Feel free to comment on my random thoughts or add your own. What classes do you like, do you not like. What spells are too strong, not strong enough, or just right?

[LaughingThesaurus]

The jetpack spell of the featherologist is amazing but I have to wonder if it's supposed to be used to slide. Just crouch and fire and you'll "powerslide" through small gaps. I've used it to slip through some either broken or deliberately gated segments in caves.

[madcow]

Yeah, I think my issue with the featherologist is I'm not particularly fond of the other two spells. I wouldn't say if they're weak or not, but they aren't really a combination of spells I want to rely on for dealing damage.

[LaughingThesaurus]

I don't understand the point of the fusillade unless you can get some special attack +crit perks. Or... you want to take out a bat and just want to spray at random at it. I sometimes find that's better if I'm in a panic and can't really precision aim. However, the first spell is really awesome for curving shots around corners. The drones aren't very practical by any means, but they're good for tactical trick corner shots and stuff.
The real reason I like featherologist is because of the jetpack that destroys shots (so you can kind of jetpack dance and destroy all the shots around you) and the ultimate attack costs so little ammo that it's great for a bit of a panic. It's one of the ammo spells that I think doesn't need a nerfing because, in order to kill a boss with it, you need to fire off several, then make your way to the other side so the shots actually hit the guy. It's a lot of risk there.

[madcow]

I think the issue I have with that particular class is that they're both situational spells. I sometimes use fusillade when I'm behind cover and want to shoot somebody at a weird angle, but for general use it's not so great.

My favorite tier 3 class (I haven't played a single game long enough to make it to 4 or 5) is definitely tornamancer though. I love that hop-punch. It has the fusillade spell too, and you're right that the biggest use of it is against bats (or my occasional blind fire behind cover).

I had an interesting idea about that spell. Most spells, have a resistance against them - so if you hit with a second casting after the first you do less damage. What I think would be interesting is if with fusillade spells, the damage actually goes up with consecutive hits, which seems like it would be in-line with the idea of a machine-gun type spell, and would give a good reason to use it. Maybe if you don't hit after 0.5 seconds the damage would reset. I'm not sure how easy or hard that would be to code, but it would be cool to see!

[LaughingThesaurus]

I haven't hit tier 3 yet so nothing to offer there.
Maybe fusillades can have a unique use, like a damage over time effect that stacks, or a weakening effect that stacks. Or, to compensate for the awful accuracy, actually up their DPS in general. I mean, all other factors held the same, the DPS of each spell seems pretty consistent.

[madcow]

Tornamancer has a spell that is a combination of a touch spell and a small hop. You can basically use it to double (or triple, or quadruple!) jump before you get the spell. It is also a touch spell. Very fun to laugh at those "you need double jump to proceed" signs.

[madcow]

I got tier 4 now, and man there are some really interesting spells now. The only one I've really played with so far is meteorist, and it is a fun class.

[LayZboy]

All of the "Charge up" spells are pretty shit to be honest.

[madcow]

Yeah, I rarely use charged spells. And when I do equip them, I never actually charge them.

And I think the issue with fusilade is that the damage is halved compared to normal shots, but the fire rate is the same. Just increase the firing rate and it would average out to the same as the other spells. I think I would still prefer the idea of as you hit with it, it builds up power though.


After playing around with whips more, I take back saying they're underpowered though. The meteorist special skill is pretty awesome too (throw a meteor!)

[LaughingThesaurus]

Charge spell DPS is tragic compared to any other spell I have used ever.

[Misery]

Fusilades are those "machinegun" sorts of spells, right?

I agree that those could use a tweak.... my suggestion would be to widen the possible firing angles.  Right now it's pretty narrow, there's not much reason to use it instead of a basic straight shot.  A wider angle might make it useful against enemies like bats that chase you, as you could just fire clusters of shots at them as you evade, and even without aiming well, it might do the trick.


Also totally agree on the charge shots.   Those need ALOT of work, right now are useless compared to all other spells. 


And those funky ammo spells that make the projectile that slowly follows you.... havent found a good use for those either.

[LaughingThesaurus]

I like the idea of fusillades being like, 200% less accurate and 200% more damaging. How dangerous is it to attack at point blank range in this game? Extremely.

[madcow]

I applaud the (soon to be) implementation of removing diagonal shooting.  It will really make a wider variety of spells (that arc or naturally are diagonal) much more worthwhile. Will certainly change perspective of what classes are worth taking.