Author Topic: Some Reflections After Two Weeks Of A Valley Without Wind's Beta  (Read 1808 times)

Offline x4000

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Original: http://christophermpark.blogspot.com/2011/10/some-reflections-after-two-weeks-of.html

If you've been following the main Arcen News Blog, or the AVWW Forum, or any of our social media, then I'm sure you've seen that we've put out a few metric tons of releases for A Valley Without wind in the last two weeks.  We're presently working on update #20, actually.

So, how have things been going?  Sales-wise, we started out with a real bang, and then it's gotten a bit quieter as the initial wave of press passed and all the players who had been most anxiously awaiting the game already now have it.  This is already our second-best-selling beta yet, though, and it's only been two weeks -- within the first month, this will have surpassed what Light of the Spire sold in three months of beta.

That's great, but of course sales aren't the core reason that we do these public betas in the first place -- what are we learning from all this exposure to players?  Well, quite a lot actually.  The difficulty curve was all out of whack, the lack of loot drops and the unkillable monster spawners really bugged people, and there were a number of mechanics that were found to be too complex even by our hardcore forum fans, and so on.

Difficulty
The difficulty curve is now consistent throughout the game, which is great, but in the process we've had to rebalance everything, and that's led to some wild oscillations in some parts of difficulty -- mostly toward the harder end.  Still working on that!  This 20th release, to be available later today, should address most if not all of the remaining large issues with difficulty being too high.

I was actually really pleased with the difficulty flow of the game right at the start of beta, but after about 10 levels of play that really started breaking down and the game got progressively easier.  Having a growing pool of players in the level 30-40 range or even higher has been really invaluable for us -- testers invaluable to any game, especially at this stage in the life of a game.

Complexity
Ever since A Valley Without Wind was first conceived, it's been our goal to have it be so simple that we didn't even need a tutorial to get new players started with it.  I loved how Minecraft or similar just plops you down and you're left to forage and expand, etc (though I understand a tutorial was added there more recently than I last played).

On the other hand, we wanted our usual incredible amount of depth to this game -- just gating most of that depth and complexity into a natural game-like progression.  Games that are easy to pick up are awesome, but once players have their feet wet they shouldn't be asking "is this all?"

So that's been an interesting balancing challenge for us, and I think overall we've done a pretty good job of getting into the right ballpark.  We were taken by surprise both in alpha and beta by how complex certain parts of the game were perceived to be, but again that's why we get the players involved early -- it's very hard to objectively judge the complexity of something you thought of.  And if you let the game get too far along without getting that critical external feedback, there are some kinds of complexity that just get too interwoven into the game that you can't later take out.

We've made a lot of strides on the complexity front already: adding more tooltips, simplifying the crafting interface, level-gating the strategic and citybuilding aspects of the game so that you don't have to deal with them immediately, and most recently taking out the "profession books" for the main three kinds of crafting.  Those added complexity without fun, which I wrote about in more length in the release notes.

So all of this helps a lot, but there is still more we need to do.  We're going to be adding a little introductory "mission" that players have to go through in new worlds.  It's not really a tutorial -- the linear mission will give you the basic tools you'd need to find for yourself anyhow, and make you use them as you would anyhow, while giving you onscreen tips just in case you feel stuck.  This should take all of 5 minutes to play through, or even less for players who already know how to play, and that should serve as a much more fun and game-like introduction to the game rather than just reading lots of stuff from the adviser guardian.

"Signal To Noise"
One of the interesting things about making a really huge infinite world is that one of two things happen: on one end of the spectrum you're constantly tripping over awesome stuff all the time, and the world feels small because you don't really have to go anywhere to accomplish anything; on the other end of the spectrum the world is incredibly vast and sparsely populated, and you wind up having to really trawl immense tracts of land to get anything done.

Right now AVWW is somewhere in the middle, which is the overall best place to be, but "the middle" is a broad place.  AVWW definitely leans toward the side of being too large and sparsely populated.  There's a ton of awesome stuff in here, and players who bother to learn how to use the dungeon map and world map, and who read the tooltips, can find those things with ease.

Of course some of the traversal is still a bit too longwinded to be as fun as we'd like (maze rooms have come up a lot in particular as needing tuning).  And even more core is the issue that players tend not to want to read.  I'm as guilty of it as anyone -- just let me play.  If the game looks familiar enough that I think I should know what I'm doing, I figure I'll figure all the stuff out as I go.

That's a challenging problem to combat, because one of the things that I like to do in my games -- as you see in AI War, for instance -- is to give the player a lot of choices and let them figure out what matters to them.  In AI War, if you try to take every planet you will usually wind up losing because of the AI's rising aggression.  In AVWW there is no penalty for trying to explore every room in every building, but it sure is boring to do; we intended for people to scout the buildings, find the rooms of interest, grab the loot, and get out.

And a number of players do just this; but still others don't.  So that's still something we're trying to find the sweet spot on, and again the beta testers are being absolutely invaluable for this.  I think we're not that far off at this point, but there's still some more condensing and such that needs to be done.

New Content
With all the flood of feedback about the existing content, and all the revisions to balance and so forth, there's been limited time to work on new content thus far.  But we have managed to add in a couple of new enemies, and our update #20 includes the first batch of new spells.  We've also added a lot of macro-game type additions all throughout -- the citybuilding bits have really grown, and we got things like consciousness nodes, pylons, vortexes, and resource deposits added on the world map.  And there's been a large number of new boss room templates, too -- things like that.

Thankfully a lot of the revision-type work looks like it is overall winding down, so I expect to see the focus really shifting soon into blasting out tons of more content.  I know that's something that a number of players have been really waiting for most eagerly, and so have we, but I think the last two weeks have been incredibly valuable to the game.

Multiplayer
Multiplayer is something we've decided to make a focus sooner than later.  Still no ETA on that, but Keith is going to be sinking most of his time into that starting today.  It's going to be rough and in need of a lot of beta testing right at the start once we first publicly release it, but hopefully within a couple of weeks of the first release into the hands of the core beta testers, we'll have it ready for wider dissemination.

Why Release This Early?
A comment that comes up occasionally from people who don't really "get" the game yet, or who just aren't that interested in it at all (hey, that happens) is "why release the game in such an early state?"  Usually with added snark or nastiness.

That really gets under my skin a bit, I have to say.  We've got loads of players who are clearly having a blast with the beta, and the feedback we're getting from the dozens who are choosing to give feedback has been nothing short of amazing.  This is how we make games at Arcen -- we actually listen to players and value what they have to say.

But you can't listen to players if they can't play the game.  And if the game is already finished, then there's not a lot that player feedback that the players can really give.  Ergo: if you want player feedback, you have to get them involved once the core of the game is solid, but before the full shape of the game is even remotely finished.

I think that when a lot of people ask for feedback, they're really saying "tell me you like it and think it's perfect in every way."  I actually want to know when there's something up with the game that makes it less fun, or more tedious, or too complex, or whatever.  When we know about those things, we can do something about it.

To some extent, that means that the players who get in early get to see "how the hotdog is made" a bit.  And if somebody really doesn't want to know that sort of information and gets turned off the game by it... well, that's a cost of being open, I guess.  But I think we and the game gain a lot more in the long-run by getting players involved in a real, early, and meaningful way.  Next time you complain about a released game having some fundamental flaws that you just can't understand, remember -- that's what can happen when games are developed in a vacuum.

The Bottom Line?
Things are going really well, I think.  We have a growing contingent of players who seem really happy with the game, and the early press has been largely quite positive.  There are still a few fundamental things we're trying to get tuned exactly right, and the new player experience still needs a lot of work in particular, but in another week it's going to be in a whole different place than it is even now.

In short: we're one of the few game developers, indie or otherwise, to experiment with a development process remotely this open.  And I think that the process is working quite well.  Only time will really tell, of course, but based on the first two weeks of beta I'm strongly encouraged.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 10:39:28 am by x4000 »
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Offline The Mimic

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Re: Some Reflections After Two Weeks Of A Valley Without Wind's Beta
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2011, 11:10:16 am »
I am consistently impressed with Arcen Games, and the progression of AVWW in two weeks exemplifies the best aspects of the company. The amount of change is going to result in an INCREDIBLY strong 1.0 release- the communication between the players and the developers pretty much ensures it.

Glad to hear sales were pretty good! I introduced several friends to it. Some of them are waiting on it and some of them just can't afford it yet, so I imagine you'll see many more at key points in beta development.

Anyway, in summary: congrats

Edit note; I think my favorite of all of the changes is the removal of profession books. I didn't like having to unlock the right to have the right to unlock something. The way it is now is definitely the way to go!
« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 11:14:52 am by The Mimic »

Offline stblr

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Re: Some Reflections After Two Weeks Of A Valley Without Wind's Beta
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2011, 01:02:53 pm »
I could never play AVWW again and feel like I've gotten my money's worth. But of course I'll keep playing it because I think it's a great game already and the pieces are in place for it to become something really amazing.

Personally I'm very interested in the design process of games and allowing the community to have such an involvement is, to me, one of the things that make Arcen a developer whose games I will always support. You guys not only make great games, you allow the members of the community to have a personal stake in their creation. I was very vocal about the particle effects, and not only were my posts fairly assessed (i.e. taken under advisement, with some of the complaints/suggestions used and others discarded as you guys see fit), but it's something I can now point to and say, "I had a hand in this," if indirectly. I might agree or disagree with the direction things are taken, but that level of community back-and-forth is something special, and in the end I think it results in a better product. So thank you for that, and keep up the great work.

Offline PlasmaChroma

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Re: Some Reflections After Two Weeks Of A Valley Without Wind's Beta
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2011, 02:47:40 pm »
One of the most amazing things about this iterative development is the fact that it has (so far) maintained good backward compatibility.

I do software programming for a living and there have been points where we make major changes and just accept the fact that, this is completely incompatible with previous database or something, replace your files and move on.

So if it does get to the point in AVWW where a complete re-roll is necessary, I can totally understand that, but so far it's been really nice, especially considering how fast these updates are rolling out.

Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: Some Reflections After Two Weeks Of A Valley Without Wind's Beta
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2011, 02:57:14 pm »
Hah, you should ask Chris about his pre-alpha saves from AI War that you can still load in the latest version. Arcen looooooooves backwards compatibility.

Offline x4000

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Re: Some Reflections After Two Weeks Of A Valley Without Wind's Beta
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2011, 03:12:09 pm »
Thanks for the kind words, everyone. :)

And yeah, AI War has had backwards compatibility maintained since at least April 2009 if not before, and something like 10,000 SVN checkins.  There are various munge-y things about loading an older save in a newer version of the game, but it's quite playable even if it isn't the same experience as playing a completely-created-fresh savegame.  Same sort of deal is planned here. :)
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Offline Nalgas

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Re: Some Reflections After Two Weeks Of A Valley Without Wind's Beta
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2011, 10:52:32 am »
Heh.  Yeah, my original world from the 0.401 alpha still loads and converts fine in the new betas, and based on experience with AI War, I don't expect that to change.  Occasionally something will disappear or be replaced or get converted into something else, but it still continues to work.

Kind of reminds me of what we used to do with the MUD I used to run, where it would make a valiant effort to load ancient versions of player files and other data if someone hadn't logged in in eight years or something and would generally only throw up a couple warnings about them having a couple pieces of equipment in their inventory that hadn't existed anymore for half a decade, but that was substantially less complex than anything going on in AVWW/AI War's saves.  Keeping those compatible without turning the code for handling it into a giant nightmare after all those changes is always fun.

Offline MooFrog

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Re: Some Reflections After Two Weeks Of A Valley Without Wind's Beta
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2011, 05:08:11 pm »
Just a quick note in support of your beta feedback loop - I think it's one of the best things to come about in the gaming world recently/ Reading the patch notes and seeing how the game develops is just about as fun as playing the game for me, and we get to experience the "new game" feeling almost every day as things change.

I played AI War through the mega patching around light of the spire, and I don't remember one serious crash or fundamental engine issue. I haven't encountered any engine or crashing problems in AVWW yet. I can't say that about other games I've played (beta or otherwise). I would have purchased AVWW sight unseen after the first announcement, and most likely will for the next game.

These first two weeks have been a blast, and often the things I've been somewhat unsure about gameplay wise have been fixed the day after. Keep it up, and remember that for every snarky comment coming your way you have a fan looking forward to what's coming next.