Author Topic: Some Lava Escape Feedback  (Read 7860 times)

Offline Terraziel

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Re: Some Lava Escape Feedback
« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2012, 04:56:28 pm »
Whilst I still died on my try just now it was considerably less frustrating, I think what happened the first time was that I waited in invincibility for too long before actually starting.

Perhaps it auto-pausing on entry would help. though how that would interact with multiplayer i'm not sure.

Offline tigersfan

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Re: Some Lava Escape Feedback
« Reply #31 on: March 01, 2012, 04:59:57 pm »
Hmmm, pausing may work, since the chunk stays paused for everyone...

Offline x4000

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Re: Some Lava Escape Feedback
« Reply #32 on: March 01, 2012, 05:00:19 pm »
Pause is local to the chunk in MP, so it wouldn't be a bad thing.  But I think that auto-pausing sometimes but not all the time when you make changes would be confusing to players, ultimately.  I prefer to go for consistency, and in this case the mission description tells them to RUN. :)
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Offline Bluddy

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Re: Some Lava Escape Feedback
« Reply #33 on: March 01, 2012, 05:18:13 pm »
How about making it such that for this mission, if any player leaves invincibility, they all do? Have the lava follow immediately.

Offline Martyn van Buren

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Re: Some Lava Escape Feedback
« Reply #34 on: March 01, 2012, 05:56:21 pm »
I feel like we're still missing something here.  I like platforming a lot and was really excited for this type of mission before it came in, but it's so punishing that I feel like I'm pretty much excluded from doing it, at least without greatly reducing the difficulty level, and I'm not sure if it would really be fun then.  Anyway, the secret mission solution ---- design the mission type for really hardcore players and then hide it ---- seems like a shame for a cool challenge that I think at least has a close cousin that would be accessible to all players.

Thinking about how these types of levels work in games where I've enjoyed them ---- VVVVVV I have a really strong memory of ---- I think the thing is something X said a while back about AIWar; it's really a puzzle game.  But that means if you're not super-skilled you have to throw a ton of lives at the level to learn the route and some tricks to make you faster, which is a really unpleasant (although, if I understand rightly, not actually harmful to your game) thing to do in AVWW.

I'd suggest, then, keeping lava escape as it is now as a secret mission, and adding either a new primary mission type or a secret mission type which appears in less inaccessible places where being caught by the rising wall sends you back to the bottom without killing you, so less skilled players like me can make a lot of runs and learn the route without getting as frustrated.  I would support making the environment in these missions more deadly --- with a lot of open space and lava pits --- since you'd have a few goes to figure out a way past these obstacles.

I don't think it would be terribly difficult to square that kind of thing with the game's generally realistic theme.  Off the top of my head, it would make sense to me as a rising column of wind that sucks in anything it touches, or as a Stalker-ish "anomaly" that just warps you to the bottom.

Offline zebramatt

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Re: Some Lava Escape Feedback
« Reply #35 on: March 01, 2012, 06:39:04 pm »
I'd suggest, then, keeping lava escape as it is now as a secret mission, and adding either a new primary mission type or a secret mission type which appears in less inaccessible places where being caught by the rising wall sends you back to the bottom without killing you, so less skilled players like me can make a lot of runs and learn the route without getting as frustrated.  I would support making the environment in these missions more deadly --- with a lot of open space and lava pits --- since you'd have a few goes to figure out a way past these obstacles.

I don't think it would be terribly difficult to square that kind of thing with the game's generally realistic theme.  Off the top of my head, it would make sense to me as a rising column of wind that sucks in anything it touches, or as a Stalker-ish "anomaly" that just warps you to the bottom.

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Offline rchaneberg

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Re: Some Lava Escape Feedback
« Reply #36 on: March 01, 2012, 07:17:36 pm »
I don't know if I would like having separate difficulty sliders, but I definitely like the idea of having very hazardous maps, with a high probability of death from too many mistakes and without the crutch of having a map point you where to go, I just dislike the extreme time constraints that go with the rapidly rising lava.
I really like having difficult challenges to overcome, but my time to game is constrained enough already that I don't want my games rushing me further (I'm a big fan of the pause button in AI war, making exquisite overlapping defense grids and such). I would love mazes that you have to take slowly and precisely.

I feel like I just said the same thing twice, but I hope you know where I'm coming from.

Offline Martyn van Buren

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Re: Some Lava Escape Feedback
« Reply #37 on: March 01, 2012, 07:18:11 pm »

Offline Professor Paul1290

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Re: Some Lava Escape Feedback
« Reply #38 on: March 01, 2012, 11:56:29 pm »
I think a big part of the frustration is not so much death by lava but the fact that it is so sudden. You often don't know that your lead has been used up until it's too late.

Since the idea is that you have to give yourself room for error, I think it might help if there was a very slight amount of damage that occurs and increases as the lava gets closer. It would probably be something really tiny and insignificant, but the fact that you're taking a small amount of damage adds even more urgency on top of what's already there while at the same time providing the player with a better sense of how much space they have to make more mistakes.

If taking damage like that would be too unfair then some other kind of visual effect would probably work as well, just something to convey the sense that "it's really getting hot in here MOVE FASTER!" well ahead of the lava when they're really running out of space.
(something else that might work would be a beeping sound or something that would beep faster and faster. You could probably justify it as part of the lava suit. )
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 12:00:54 am by Professor Paul1290 »

Offline x4000

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Re: Some Lava Escape Feedback
« Reply #39 on: March 02, 2012, 01:02:39 pm »
That's what the distance-from-lava thing by your feet indicates.  There's nothing that would be clearer than that.  The thing is, you can have a "good lead" but it's still not enough of a lead.
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: Some Lava Escape Feedback
« Reply #40 on: March 02, 2012, 01:03:21 pm »
Just saw the new platforming difficulty names.
I would of ROFLed if I wasn't in a public place.  :D

I guess that's one of the nice things about being an indie developer, no overly paranoid legal team stopping you from making large references like these.

Offline x4000

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Re: Some Lava Escape Feedback
« Reply #41 on: March 02, 2012, 01:08:07 pm »
Arcen does have a lawyer, and he's advised us against using game names in marketing materials because they could sue over "unjust brand enrichment" or something along those lines.  So we don't use the term "Metroidvania," for example, on any of our official stuff.

But for in-game homages, all of our games are rife with those.  AI War and Tidalis are filled with nods at various other games, and so is AVWW.  Many of them are so obscure in AI War and Tidalis that nobody has ever picked up on them, others people have caught.

The way I look at that sort of thing is: I would be honored if another developer did that sort of homage to something I created.  Truly pleased.  It doesn't take away anything from me, that doesn't even make sense, and it's a tip of the hat saying I made something worthwhile.  I do the same thing to others, particularly those who are not direct competitors.
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Offline Professor Paul1290

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Re: Some Lava Escape Feedback
« Reply #42 on: March 02, 2012, 05:06:38 pm »
That's what the distance-from-lava thing by your feet indicates.  There's nothing that would be clearer than that.  The thing is, you can have a "good lead" but it's still not enough of a lead.

That exists?  :o

I guess I was so "OMG JUMP JUMP JUMP" that I missed it the first few times.  :P

Offline x4000

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Re: Some Lava Escape Feedback
« Reply #43 on: March 02, 2012, 05:14:57 pm »
No worries. :)
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Offline Coppermantis

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Re: Some Lava Escape Feedback
« Reply #44 on: March 02, 2012, 10:54:10 pm »
Arcen does have a lawyer, and he's advised us against using game names in marketing materials because they could sue over "unjust brand enrichment" or something along those lines.  So we don't use the term "Metroidvania," for example, on any of our official stuff.

But for in-game homages, all of our games are rife with those.  AI War and Tidalis are filled with nods at various other games, and so is AVWW.  Many of them are so obscure in AI War and Tidalis that nobody has ever picked up on them, others people have caught.

The way I look at that sort of thing is: I would be honored if another developer did that sort of homage to something I created.  Truly pleased.  It doesn't take away anything from me, that doesn't even make sense, and it's a tip of the hat saying I made something worthwhile.  I do the same thing to others, particularly those who are not direct competitors.

I noticed a bunch in the cheat codes for AI War. Some I don't get but I'm fairly sure are references nonetheless.  :P
I can already tell this is going to be a roller coaster ride of disappointment.