Author Topic: So, what lore do folks have questions about?  (Read 11628 times)

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
Re: So, what lore do folks have questions about?
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2012, 09:52:28 am »
I'm still wondering why monsters pop out of piles of skulls.

They won't be, tomorrow.

There's also a really eclectic selection of monsters: the robots and the limping dragon and fairies and all that. Something should explain why there's such a strange collection of monsters. Especially the sci-fi and fantasy stuff -- I always have trouble with the blending of those genres.

Well, the answer to that one in particular is kind of simple: there are all these different time periods, right?  There are robots in the future, there are more fantasy type enemies in the past.  Chrono Trigger and countless other games do this same sort of thing.  There's nothing I love better than a blend of sci-fi and fantasy, though good hard sci fi is another thing I really like.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline eRe4s3r

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,825
Re: So, what lore do folks have questions about?
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2012, 09:57:30 am »
I am gonna be evil and ask what everybody should ask about any RPG like game.

1) Where are all the children
2) What do people eat and drink
3) Why are there no toilets in my settlement

;P
Proud member of the Initiative for Bigger Weapons EV. - Bringer of Additive Blended Doom - Vote for Lore, get free cookie

Offline Toll

  • Sr. Member Mark III
  • ****
  • Posts: 452
Re: So, what lore do folks have questions about?
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2012, 10:01:23 am »
Your first question is the answer to your second question, y'know  ;)

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
Re: So, what lore do folks have questions about?
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2012, 10:02:31 am »
At the risk of derailing slightly, let me run off on the Star Wars tangent a bit, but to make a point, I hope. The problem with midichlorians isn't exactly that it's an answer to a question no one asked, although that's part of it. Watching the original SW films, you get a pretty good idea of the force and how it works. It fits into traditional fantasy ideas. It's got some religion and ritual mixed up in it, and some mysticism, and some bit of wizards and magicians. It's not exactly any of those things, but it's close enough to fit comfortably into those mental patterns. So while people may have been curious to know more about the force, they wanted to know about it while still keeping it within those boundaries that they had come to accept it under. What they didn't want was to be told that it's not this mystical religion, it's psuedo-babble science. That not only ruins the mystery which was a fun part of the original idea, but it also turns it into something entirely different. We didn't want to know about that force, we wanted to know about the one that we already thought we understood.

This is all true, but I guess I didn't really explain my bit very well.  Did you ever read Calvin and Hobbes?  There was a particular "Noodle Incident" that was the most imfamous thing that Calvin ever did, and it's referred to a handful of times throughout the strip.  It's never explained.  In one of his anthologies after the strip was over, Watterson remarked (to paraphrase) "of course I never answered what the Noodle Incident was, because nothing I could think up would ever compared to the crazy stuff that people were imagining in their heads."  The thing about most ideas like that is that the half-formed ideas in people's heads seem like so much more.  As soon as you start shining light on something like that, it's like "oh, that's all."

The Force is particularly mystical when you have this sense that nobody completely understands it, and so your mind fills in all these blanks in ways that appeal to you specifically.  If you look at the tiny bits of story for AI War, the reason they work so well is their very brevity, I think.  And lots of other games, mostly classic games, are like that also.  Most books do it.  Whatever your lore is, you have to always hold some of it back, because readers or players need to feel like the world is larger than they know.  One problem with the Star Wars prequels is that they tried to answer all of the backstory/lore questions from the original trilogy, without raising any new and interesting issues to go with them.  In the real world we never understand the entirety of how the world works, and we all know and on some level accept this, and so when fiction presents us a "this is everything you need to know about all of this" answer to big questions, that fiction seems paper thin.

My two cents. ;)

So, that said, I would like to know a bit more about the Ilari and what they're doing and why there are some that seem to be good and some that are jerks, and I'd like to know what they have to do with the deep. Keeping them mysterious while dribbling out little bits of information is fine. Usually less is more, in these sorts of situations. But I don't want to be told that they're some dilithium crystals that fell out of the USS Enterprise while it was flying over the planet 500 years ago. Not that giving fantasy concept a more scientific explanation is a bad thing, it can lead to some really interesting stories, just... don't do it badly, I guess is the point. George Lucas shouldn't be allowed to touch Star Wars any more, is what I'm saying.

Yeah, this is all good points.

That aside, I'd be interested in optionally learning more about the various time periods. I mean if you imagine someone thrust into this sort of situation with a settlement full of people from all sorts of times, that's exactly what they'd talk about. Once you got the basics of survival out of the way and sat down at the campfire for the night, I'm sure I'd be asking 'So, what is life like in the robot future? Does your history record what happened to humans? Where do baby robots come from?' and so on.

A lot of that we're trying to seed in through NPC dialogue rather than explicitly through mysteries, but if that doesn't seem like enough then we can circle back to some mysteries later.

And it never hurts to throw in plot threads that may not connect to much and then fill them out later if people get really curious. Put in off-hand references to your own version of the 'Clone Wars', and then just leave it hanging out there. If people are really curious, you can fill in the back story as needed. If not, it just remains as a neat reference to make the world feel more alive. (Just don't let George Lucas write it when you do fill out that back story.)

Yeah, that's a good point.  We have a ton of stuff like that, but we'll just have to put in some references rather than trying to make them full-out mysteries.  Because at this point, nobody cares, heh.  But if we tempt them for a few years, they might like to know a little more.  I for one very much wanted to know about Vader's fall and the Clone Wars, they just completely wrote it wrong.  Among other issues.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
Re: So, what lore do folks have questions about?
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2012, 10:10:34 am »
Okay, lots of good thoughts in there.  I've updated the OP with a lot more of these.  And "Where are all the children" is among them, for sure. :)
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: So, what lore do folks have questions about?
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2012, 10:15:56 am »
3) Why are there no toilets in my settlement
There's a reason you never go into the parallax background.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline zebramatt

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,574
Re: So, what lore do folks have questions about?
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2012, 10:16:07 am »
I suppose if I care about anything, it's "What are these overlords after?"

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: So, what lore do folks have questions about?
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2012, 11:23:34 am »
I suppose if I care about anything, it's "What are these overlords after?"
That would depend on which one :)
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Bluddy

  • Sr. Member Mark III
  • ****
  • Posts: 434
Re: So, what lore do folks have questions about?
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2012, 11:26:58 am »
Well, the answer to that one in particular is kind of simple: there are all these different time periods, right?  There are robots in the future, there are more fantasy type enemies in the past.  Chrono Trigger and countless other games do this same sort of thing.  There's nothing I love better than a blend of sci-fi and fantasy, though good hard sci fi is another thing I really like.

I guess even though I meant my question have-jokingly, what I really would like is some outlining of a story of the time periods ie. the history of this world before it got muddled up. Was there a kingdom of some sort at some point? With fairies? Were the fairies ever good? When did the icicles come about? I think a simple outline of the history and the races at each point, perhaps with a few dramatic twists, would be really interesting.

In other words, I like my monsters to have context.

Depths of Peril did this really nicely with about 50 short stories about the different races and their backgrounds that are found throughout the game. Of course, I don't expect anything like that -- that would involve hiring a writer. But you could still create for yourselves a timeline of the world, and as you add monsters, place them in that timeline. Form a general story about this world (if you haven't already) with a few main characters and then make a lot of short tidbits of information -- one or two sentences each. Stuff written by different races, by rebellious robots (if there were any), by the Ilari, by the pirates, by a hero... Then seed them randomly throughout the world and levels -- on tombstones, on some items (desks, benches, dinosaur bones).

If this seems like too much work, you could involve us in the job. Set up a secret forum where you reveal more of the story, and let the fans write up the tidbits.

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
Re: So, what lore do folks have questions about?
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2012, 11:30:56 am »
All makes sense -- I've added that sort of thing to the list, I think it will work well.  Not all the specific monsters would have huge amounts of context, but many of them will.

In terms of getting community involvement on story, that's something we might do at some point, but in the short term I think we've got it covered.  We have three heavy writers on staff, and at least some of our spouses are also big into writing.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Underfot

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 57
Re: So, what lore do folks have questions about?
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2012, 12:33:36 pm »
I would like to find out more about the power struggles in the world.  There could be a number of struggles going on, with various scopes:
A great destroying force that has shattered the world  vs. A will or force that wants to rebuild it
Illari (Guardian and the like) vs. Dark Illari
Glyphbearers vs. Overlords vs. other Overlords
Survivors vs. Survivors

Each level manipulates those below it to achieve goals, even without those goals being clear. 
I'm not suggesting having full-blown factions (yet  :) ) , but getting hints that there are forces moving events, and even occasionally finding out about the goals of an enemy or ally would be great.

So, who has power in this world, and what are they trying to do with it?

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
Re: So, what lore do folks have questions about?
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2012, 12:37:18 pm »
I would like to find out more about the power struggles in the world.  There could be a number of struggles going on, with various scopes:
A great destroying force that has shattered the world  vs. A will or force that wants to rebuild it
Illari (Guardian and the like) vs. Dark Illari
Glyphbearers vs. Overlords vs. other Overlords
Survivors vs. Survivors

Each level manipulates those below it to achieve goals, even without those goals being clear. 
I'm not suggesting having full-blown factions (yet  :) ) , but getting hints that there are forces moving events, and even occasionally finding out about the goals of an enemy or ally would be great.

So, who has power in this world, and what are they trying to do with it?

Answer for 1.0: Not much of anybody has any entrenched power, because there's been this huge disaster and everyone is still scrambling just to survive.  And the various overlords are taking some power, but that's about it.

What you're talking about isn't existing lore in the game, or backstory, but rather an expansion of the scope of the current world events that the player is seeing happen.  Which is great, and something I'm sure we'll pursue in the future, but there's definitely no room in the 1.0 scope for that.  There's a reason that minor factions in AI War didn't appear until version 3.0 of the game, heh.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline zebramatt

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,574
Re: So, what lore do folks have questions about?
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2012, 12:55:30 pm »
I suppose if I care about anything, it's "What are these overlords after?"
That would depend on which one :)

But they're all trying to trash the joint, eh? Is it just bloody-mindedness? They just do what they want?

They must be stopped!


Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
Re: So, what lore do folks have questions about?
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2012, 01:43:08 pm »
:D
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Cyborg

  • Master Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,957
Re: So, what lore do folks have questions about?
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2012, 02:07:18 pm »
Please provide Ultros.
Kahuna strategy guide:
http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,13369.0.html

Suggestions, bugs? Don't be lazy, give back:
http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/

Planetcracker. Believe it.

The stigma of hunger. http://wayw.re/Vi12BK