Author Topic: So, what lore do folks have questions about?  (Read 11041 times)

Offline x4000

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So, what lore do folks have questions about?
« on: January 25, 2012, 07:00:10 pm »
In a thread just a bit ago, I wrote the following:

4. More on this in another thread very shortly, but we also figured out what we are going to do with the whole story-integration aspects and lore.  There's a lot of interesting backstory/lore that I know people want answers to, and we promised that the game would include a way to pursue those mysteries.  We tried a number of complex models for this to very limited success, so once again we've boiled this one down to its essence: solving the mysteries.  More on this in another thread in just a bit.

The lore for AVWW is quite large, but we've not really integrated a whole lot of that into the game just yet.  Rather than just including reams and reams of lore that might not be very interesting to players, we want to actually focus on what people are interested in.  It's a good rule of thumb in fiction to only answer questions that the reader has already asked -- if you explain backstory that they don't care about, that's just boring clutter.  If you mention something like "Darth Vader killed your dad," that's relevant and raises a bunch of questions.  Then later when you learn more about Vader, you aren't thinking "whyyy are you telling me about midichlorians!?  This is goofy and irrelevant and trying to answer a question I never asked you!"  Lawrence Kasdan was a really good scriptwriter, I think.

Star Wars tangents aside, this has got me to thinking about what questions the game has raised that players are legitimately curious about.  Obvious examples are:

1. There was some sort of reality-fragmenting cataclysm, which is obviously the biggest mystery of all at the moment.

2. The Ilari.  We have all this backstory on them, but I'm not sure to what extent players are curious about them.  To some extent I don't want to get into midichlorians territory by explaining all about their history if they are better left just a mysterious force with origins that are hinted at.

3. What's going on with The Deep is a question that some players may have once they encounter the deep, and the answer to that actually reveals some stuff about the Ilari in a more indirect way.  Providing that as a mystery that you can unlock clues for once you've actually been to the deep might be something worth doing.

4. Various other things about the various time periods might be interesting or it might not.  The exposition of the NPCs gives some hints to all that sort of thing (when they aren't griping about overlords), and maybe that's all we should leave this as, rather than making them formal mysteries with clues for you to pick up and piece together.

5. What is the nature of the overlords?  There is some backstory with overlords in general and what they are doing -- and why they are trying to sink the continents into the sea might be good to answer, too.  But then again, that's a fine line with getting into explain what the Clone Wars was.  Mentioning "your father fought in the clone wars" is cool.  Showing the clone wars turned out to be a lot less so, and not just because that movie was written poorly -- some mysteries are better left as mysteries, in any fiction.



And.... I'm drawing a blank beyond a lot of this.  There's a lot of lore that we have that is important for us to know, but that doesn't really belong actually in a tight work of fiction.  Even Tolkien left a lot of stuff out of his actual books, despite all his backstory overkill.  The problem is, Keith and I are way too close to the material, and it's hard for us to judge which mysteries are going to really be intriguing for you to want to piece together clues to find the answer to.  The reality shattering event is a really obvious one that needs to be in there, but beyond that... what do you folks want to be able to find out through the game?

EDIT: I'm going to make a list of mysteries we definitely want to address in the game, based on player feedback below:

1. There was some sort of reality-fragmenting cataclysm, which is obviously the biggest mystery of all at the moment.

2. What's the deal with the glyph you're carrying around? Where did it come from? What effects does it have? Why did you get it?  Why does it pass between characters when one dies?

3. The environment: Where does the wind come from? Why does it buff monsters? How do wind shelters interact with the wind to actually make it stop blowing (which, in essence, is the opposite of what windmills normally do)?  Why is the water acidic?  Why are learned spells limited by continent?

4. The monsters: clues about what they are and where they came from.  And tying into this some, probably, the consciousness shards.  And some more hints about the Ilari here, too.  And what the heck the overlords are trying to do; why they are sinking continents into the sea, etc.  What keeps the monsters out of the settlements?

5. Hints about the history of magic: some revealing snips from various time periods, and how magic affected the life in each time period.  No midichlorians, but getting at the root of at least how magic shaped the entire history of this planet, and somewhat about how the earliest magic users might have found some of their power.  Why there are no cars or other similar vehicles, and why there are no weapons that are used (guns, bows, swords, etc).

6. Hints about various historical events: the cataclysm between the modern and ancient eras, what the deal is with The Deep, what happened with the ice age, why the time of magic was tragic.

7. Where are all the children?
« Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 11:20:25 am by x4000 »
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Offline Toll

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Re: So, what lore do folks have questions about?
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2012, 07:19:47 pm »
To make a list of other questions I have:

  • The seal you're carrying around: Where did it come from? What effects does it have? Why did you get it?
  • The wind: Where does it come from (I assume it's some mysterious source)? Why does it affect monsters? How do windmills interact with the wind to actually make it stop blowing (which, in essence, is the opposite of what windmills normally do)?

Offline freeformschooler

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Re: So, what lore do folks have questions about?
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2012, 07:30:30 pm »
I also wish to know about the wind. It seems to be pretty bad, like the Miasma in Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles or something.

Offline x4000

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Re: So, what lore do folks have questions about?
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2012, 07:32:35 pm »
Good stuff already, thanks guys.  I'm making a list in the OP of things that we definitely need to touch on based on what folks are interested in, just to keep it all organized.
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Offline freeformschooler

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Re: So, what lore do folks have questions about?
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2012, 07:36:16 pm »
Another one: the monsters themselves. Even regular RPGs often answer this somehow. Why are they here? What do they want? It can be assumed that they're the product of the cataclysm, as it seems unlikely civilization could have gone on with them around. But we don't know for sure.

Offline Gallant Dragon

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Re: So, what lore do folks have questions about?
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2012, 08:28:38 pm »
I'm still wondering why monsters pop out of piles of skulls.
It's just carriers all the way down!

Offline Bluddy

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Re: So, what lore do folks have questions about?
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2012, 11:07:40 pm »
There's also a really eclectic selection of monsters: the robots and the limping dragon and fairies and all that. Something should explain why there's such a strange collection of monsters. Especially the sci-fi and fantasy stuff -- I always have trouble with the blending of those genres.

Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: So, what lore do folks have questions about?
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2012, 12:30:43 am »
At the risk of derailing slightly, let me run off on the Star Wars tangent a bit, but to make a point, I hope. The problem with midichlorians isn't exactly that it's an answer to a question no one asked, although that's part of it. Watching the original SW films, you get a pretty good idea of the force and how it works. It fits into traditional fantasy ideas. It's got some religion and ritual mixed up in it, and some mysticism, and some bit of wizards and magicians. It's not exactly any of those things, but it's close enough to fit comfortably into those mental patterns. So while people may have been curious to know more about the force, they wanted to know about it while still keeping it within those boundaries that they had come to accept it under. What they didn't want was to be told that it's not this mystical religion, it's psuedo-babble science. That not only ruins the mystery which was a fun part of the original idea, but it also turns it into something entirely different. We didn't want to know about that force, we wanted to know about the one that we already thought we understood.

So, that said, I would like to know a bit more about the Ilari and what they're doing and why there are some that seem to be good and some that are jerks, and I'd like to know what they have to do with the deep. Keeping them mysterious while dribbling out little bits of information is fine. Usually less is more, in these sorts of situations. But I don't want to be told that they're some dilithium crystals that fell out of the USS Enterprise while it was flying over the planet 500 years ago. Not that giving fantasy concept a more scientific explanation is a bad thing, it can lead to some really interesting stories, just... don't do it badly, I guess is the point. George Lucas shouldn't be allowed to touch Star Wars any more, is what I'm saying.

That aside, I'd be interested in optionally learning more about the various time periods. I mean if you imagine someone thrust into this sort of situation with a settlement full of people from all sorts of times, that's exactly what they'd talk about. Once you got the basics of survival out of the way and sat down at the campfire for the night, I'm sure I'd be asking 'So, what is life like in the robot future? Does your history record what happened to humans? Where do baby robots come from?' and so on.

And it never hurts to throw in plot threads that may not connect to much and then fill them out later if people get really curious. Put in off-hand references to your own version of the 'Clone Wars', and then just leave it hanging out there. If people are really curious, you can fill in the back story as needed. If not, it just remains as a neat reference to make the world feel more alive. (Just don't let George Lucas write it when you do fill out that back story.)

Offline zebramatt

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Re: So, what lore do folks have questions about?
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2012, 07:34:34 am »
I'm actually pretty happy about midichlorians myself.

And the Clone Wars, as it happens.

Offline Bluddy

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Re: So, what lore do folks have questions about?
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2012, 08:08:50 am »
I'm actually pretty happy about midichlorians myself.

And the Clone Wars, as it happens.

Really? How old are you? Did you get to watch the old trilogy long before you watched the prequels?

Bob: that's a great explanation of the problem with midichlorians. I would add that it's not just that we were given a different explanation -- we were given a crappy explanation that's not at the same level of what we were imagining before. As a mystical force, The Force was something that transcended space and time, something that guided the universe. It was pretty close to a Deity (albeit an amoral one), which, whether or not you believe in one, seemed to exists within the world of Star Wars. Learning about the midichlorians caused that lofty notion to come crashing down. It was no longer a transcendent force. It's kinda like saying that all the Deities and magic in dungeons & dragons is really just some tricks and sleight of hand, so that every D&D campaign could really have ended like an episode of Scooby Doo.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2012, 08:21:28 am by Bluddy »

Offline zebramatt

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Re: So, what lore do folks have questions about?
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2012, 08:24:42 am »
I'm actually pretty happy about midichlorians myself.

And the Clone Wars, as it happens.

Really? How old are you? Did you get to watch the old trilogy long before you watched the prequels?

28. I first watched Star Wars in 1989, age 5. The trilogy on VHS were my most watched videos from that point until about 1996.

I got advanced screening tickets for Phantom Menace in Leicester Square and watched it with a cinema full of jedi, stormtroopers and aliens. I was right there with the planet when the bubble burst on Lucas's so-called genius.

And I was right there for every subsequent blow. Every time you thought he might actually have done something, some little thing right, he surprised you with an ever greater tragedy ("Nooooooooooo!" you might've been heard to exclaim - although, probably not).

But since then, something's happened to my perception of Star Wars. I've rewatched all of them many times over, including the prequel trilogy and both Clone Wars and The Clone Wars animated series. And you know what? There's still something there. Traces of the old magic. It's not perfect, but I don't actually think it ever was. The bubble burst but there's still an echo of it there, resonating through the ether.

And I actually think I love it, all of it, as much if not more than I ever did. It's become an entire genre in its own right. There's still nothing quite like Star Wars.

Edit: Sorry, that was immensely off topic!

Edit 2: And on the specific point of midichlorians - they still fit in the old framework for me. Attributing the Force to midichlorians is, for me, like attributing God to 'deity particles'. It's not removed any mysticism at all. Oh, so it's not just magic which transcends time and space; it's actually tiny magical beings which transcend time and space? Thanks for clearing that up, Qui-Gon!
« Last Edit: January 26, 2012, 08:30:21 am by zebramatt »

Offline Souls-Stream

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Re: So, what lore do folks have questions about?
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2012, 08:42:52 am »
Argh :( no, the midichlorians were the worst idea ever for me :(
It ruined everything about the force ! For me it was something you squire through practice and training, something you learn to master in very special way :(

Just like magic, anybody can be a wizard through long and hard training, lots of studies... Of course some are more gifted than others but that doesnt mean that the others are limited by their genetics !
Which is truly frustrating ! I can be a superior being because I have it in my genetics but no matter how hard I train or study, I will never be the greatest in that discipline !!! Seriously ? How disapointing is that ?

All trolls apart, I would like to know more about magic ? Where does it come from ? Why are the ennemies able or not to use it ? Where do the enemies come from and why that planet (looks like they're from outer space, aren't they? )

I have questions about the technological background of the civilization which seems advanced and yet not, how did they end all scared in little villages ? Did they fight back ? Was it fairly equal or a slaughter ?

What about te wisp that follows you everywhere ? Is it the source of magic ? Is it intelligent ?

And yes, questions about the wind too like mentioned earlier.

Offline Toll

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Re: So, what lore do folks have questions about?
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2012, 08:54:29 am »
Just as a small note, that little "wisp" is actually the glyph I mistakenly referred to as a seal in my earlier post.

Offline zebramatt

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Re: So, what lore do folks have questions about?
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2012, 09:02:10 am »
Back on-topic, is it bad that all the story is just window dressing to me? I mean, I like window dressing but it's not really terribly important to me outside of setting atmosphere.

Metroid, Castlevania, Zelda - the plot sets a certain scene, but story exposition isn't what drives me on. In fact, the Metroid games which have more of a plot (than simply "find out where all these metroids are coming from") are great very much in spite of their plot.

That said, I haven't played the newest Castlevania yet - I've heard that's got a doozy of a plot!

Offline Toll

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Re: So, what lore do folks have questions about?
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2012, 09:10:05 am »
Yes, it's bad. Shame on you for not liking what I like. Shame, shame.  :P

On a more serious note, personally I generally see a game without a plot/background as only half-finished. I want to know what drives my pixelated self to do what they do. AI War has a relatively simple plot: AI has taken over, and you need to beat it. That's all the motivation I needed, really. While the same can, technically, be said about AVWW right now ("Unless you kill the Overlord, you'll all perish"), there's still way too many questions up in the air for me regarding the history; why and how did everything happen, and why on earth do the Overlords want to destroy the continents in the first place? While I don't expect to get an answer to all the questions, there's still that big gap that, at least in my opinion, needs to be filled.