Author Topic: Q & A  (Read 183268 times)

Offline zebramatt

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Re: Q & A
« Reply #135 on: September 28, 2011, 03:05:59 am »
And to add to that: there's no way to ever get the same world twice.  The RNG isn't single-seeded.

Surely you could get the same world twice.  It would just be extraordinarily unlikely.

In the same sense of the Monkeys typing shakespeare... although millions of times less likely than that, honestly.

Millions of times less likely than that? Are you sure??

Offline x4000

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Re: Q & A
« Reply #136 on: September 28, 2011, 09:09:10 am »
I know the world is supposed to be all sorts of messed up and crazy, but is this intentional?
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/9800/avwwcaveissue.jpg

My theory on AVWWs story:
Someone slipped The Doctor exotic space drugs and he went berserk. :D

Yes, that's intentional, although there will eventually be more of a forest background as well.

And to add to that: there's no way to ever get the same world twice.  The RNG isn't single-seeded.

Surely you could get the same world twice.  It would just be extraordinarily unlikely.

In the same sense of the Monkeys typing shakespeare... although millions of times less likely than that, honestly.

Millions of times less likely than that? Are you sure??

Pretty sure, yeah.  I'm not sure how many words are in shakespeare, but I imagine it's not more than 200,000.  And they all have to be in the right sequence, obviously.  And they're each composed of 1-10 characters or so, most likely.  Each of which only has maybe... 50 possible values if you include all the exotic punctuation and spacing and such.

In an AVWW world, you've got the world map, which has one random factor and maybe 100 possible distinct values per tile if you multiply all the various attributes together.  Then in each region you have the dungeon map for the surface, with a random factor and really only maybe a few thousand overall permutations there, at most, for the dungeon map itself.  But you have to multiply that versus the value for each world tile, for instance, since this could vary by each region.  So now we're up to 10,0000 as our number of permutations, conservatively.

Then you get into what is in each dungeon node, what all the sub-dungeons look like, what each building looks like, where the monster nests are seeded, how the terrain is seeded, where each tree and such are seeded, what the bosses are named (and there are a about 250,000 permuations of them as it is).

To get the EXACT same world twice involves so much multiplicative complexity that a few million times more complex than the works of shakespeare is probably undershooting it.  The reason is all the nested procedural algorithms: there are tens or hundreds of thousands of possibilities at each level, if not more, and there's levels within levels like russian dolls.  Minecraft is hugely random enough, but it only has a few levels -- terrain, caves, and mob placement, so far as I can tell.  That's going to give ridiculous amounts of random as it is, but our system adds on a lot more in terms of what would really be randomized.

I'm not making a value statement against Minecraft, or Shakespeare for that matter, but the fact of the matter is this has more constituent parts that would need to be placed properly if you've got a world of any substantial scope -- say if you reached level 80 or 100, for instance.  If you're just talking about the very starting map seed when you start the game, obviously that has way lower complexity than Shakespeare, or Minecraft, because most things haven't been generated yet and we're only talking a few dozen tiles.  There's still hundreds of thousands of possible starts, so it's still unlikely, but once you start moving around more, that complexity literally compounds. :)
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Offline KPJZKC

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Re: Q & A
« Reply #137 on: September 28, 2011, 10:31:30 am »
Maths is delicious :p

And now here is my stupid question - how do I do things on the strategic map? I have the map up, the scrollable list of characters on the bottom that I can click and select...but then nothing? Unless I just don't have any options yet? (although I did come across a neutral NPC in a cave)

Offline tigersfan

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Re: Q & A
« Reply #138 on: September 28, 2011, 10:46:27 am »
Maths is delicious :p

And now here is my stupid question - how do I do things on the strategic map? I have the map up, the scrollable list of characters on the bottom that I can click and select...but then nothing? Unless I just don't have any options yet? (although I did come across a neutral NPC in a cave)

Well, have your NPCs done anything yet? I ask because each NPC can only do one action per turn. So, if they've all acted, you have to end the turn to continue. Up in the top right hand part of the screen, it will tell you how many NPCs you have, and how many can still act. If you have NPCs who are free, simply click where you want them to act. Click on the white person icon to have them recriut the neutral NPC, click on the shaded areas to have your NPCs scout, etc.

Offline x4000

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Re: Q & A
« Reply #139 on: September 28, 2011, 10:48:26 am »
Also, hover over region tiles to see the actions they can take.  Mostly exploring to start.
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Offline orzelek

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Re: Q & A
« Reply #140 on: September 28, 2011, 12:56:35 pm »
Q: I found a settlement and on strategic map when I mouse it over it says build wind shelter. I click it and... nothing (I'm in that settlement). Active character portrait switches to next one but previous guy is not flagged as already spent turn and no resources are consumed. What's wrong then with this?

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Q & A
« Reply #141 on: September 28, 2011, 12:58:10 pm »
Q: I found a settlement and on strategic map when I mouse it over it says build wind shelter. I click it and... nothing (I'm in that settlement). Active character portrait switches to next one but previous guy is not flagged as already spent turn and no resources are consumed. What's wrong then with this?
What's wrong?  I goofed somewhere, that's what ;)  It shouldn't be displaying any action on a friendly settlement, really.
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Offline orzelek

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Re: Q & A
« Reply #142 on: September 28, 2011, 01:05:58 pm »
Q: I found a settlement and on strategic map when I mouse it over it says build wind shelter. I click it and... nothing (I'm in that settlement). Active character portrait switches to next one but previous guy is not flagged as already spent turn and no resources are consumed. What's wrong then with this?
What's wrong?  I goofed somewhere, that's what ;)  It shouldn't be displaying any action on a friendly settlement, really.
Hmm strange then. This action actually made sense for me.
Since settlement should have wind shelter right?

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Q & A
« Reply #143 on: September 28, 2011, 01:09:42 pm »
Hmm strange then. This action actually made sense for me.
Since settlement should have wind shelter right?
Settlement > (Friendly) Outpost > Wind Shelter.

Friendly outposts aren't really in the game yet, but they're basically upgraded wind shelters (requires an actual guardian stone to be built), and settlements are uber-upgraded outposts (requires a hearth guardian present).  So they all already have the wind shelter effect.
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Offline orzelek

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Re: Q & A
« Reply #144 on: September 28, 2011, 01:13:19 pm »
Hmm strange then. This action actually made sense for me.
Since settlement should have wind shelter right?
Settlement > (Friendly) Outpost > Wind Shelter.

Friendly outposts aren't really in the game yet, but they're basically upgraded wind shelters (requires an actual guardian stone to be built), and settlements are uber-upgraded outposts (requires a hearth guardian present).  So they all already have the wind shelter effect.

But map around settlement is full of *. Mantis then ?

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Q & A
« Reply #145 on: September 28, 2011, 01:16:13 pm »
Hmm strange then. This action actually made sense for me.
Since settlement should have wind shelter right?
Settlement > (Friendly) Outpost > Wind Shelter.

Friendly outposts aren't really in the game yet, but they're basically upgraded wind shelters (requires an actual guardian stone to be built), and settlements are uber-upgraded outposts (requires a hearth guardian present).  So they all already have the wind shelter effect.

But map around settlement is full of *. Mantis then ?
Oh, the settlement won't contribute to the actual network until it's actually connected to the origin settlement, I think.  It just prevents windstorms in its own region.  May change that later but it's not a bug.

But it is a bug that it would tell you that clicking on that square would build a wind shelter, so mantis'ing that would be good, thanks :)
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Offline orzelek

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Re: Q & A
« Reply #146 on: September 28, 2011, 01:33:08 pm »
Q: Road network and building it. I noticed that some of wind shelters I ordered to be built have road connections. But few I built by hand don't. How do I connect them (and new settlement) with road?

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Q & A
« Reply #147 on: September 28, 2011, 01:39:20 pm »
Q: Road network and building it. I noticed that some of wind shelters I ordered to be built have road connections. But few I built by hand don't. How do I connect them (and new settlement) with road?
They have to be within a certain range of the other locations, though possibly there's some bug with manual building (though I did tell it to do the SetRoads() call in that case).
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Offline x4000

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Re: Q & A
« Reply #148 on: September 28, 2011, 02:53:51 pm »
Q: Road network and building it. I noticed that some of wind shelters I ordered to be built have road connections. But few I built by hand don't. How do I connect them (and new settlement) with road?
They have to be within a certain range of the other locations, though possibly there's some bug with manual building (though I did tell it to do the SetRoads() call in that case).

I almost always build them manually, so as of a few days ago the roads were working fine with the manual.  Not to say that's still the case. ;)
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Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Q & A
« Reply #149 on: September 28, 2011, 03:00:24 pm »
speaking of manual, i want the roads to be build-able manual.. for aesthetic reasons ;P
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