Poll

Tab-targeting isn't really an exploit, but some folks view it almost as such.  Your thoughts?

I think it's an exploit and should removed.
1 (3.7%)
I love it and can't play without it!  If you remove that, I can't play effectively at all.
6 (22.2%)
I don't use it, and so don't really have an opinion.
1 (3.7%)
I don't use it, but it certainly doesn't bother me that other people do.
12 (44.4%)
I could go either way.
1 (3.7%)
I use it and I'm happy to have it there, but it isn't the case that I can't live without it.
6 (22.2%)

Total Members Voted: 0

Author Topic: Poll: Tab-targeting: keep or remove?  (Read 4127 times)

Offline x4000

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Poll: Tab-targeting: keep or remove?
« on: February 24, 2012, 06:56:50 pm »
My own feelings are that I don't use it, but I also don't think it's an exploit.  Here's why:

1. Tab targeting just fires spells in a straight line at the target you choose.  It doesn't (and won't) aim at weakspots.  It doesn't correct trajectories for launch rock.  It doesn't "lead" monsters that are moving.  It doesn't make even slight corrections to avoid hitting terrain.  It's _just_ a straight line, and that's all it will ever be (no improvements are coming, since those really would be auto-aim-ish).

2. Given the above, that means that you've traded one kind of aiming for another.  Instead of aiming your cursor at the enemy, you're positioning yourself so that the line between yourself and the enemy does what you want.  That's harder than it sounds, in a lot of cases, because you're also dodging enemy fire and dealing with terrain and so on.  But for some folks on keyboards, or some folks who are less twitch-style gamers, moving themselves and their cursor is out of the question, and just moving themselves in relation to their enemy is much better.

3. Tab targeting is inherently slower.  You have to cycle through targets, and in particular lining up really sweet piercing shots that hit many enemies at once is way harder to do this way.  In other words, tab targeting does give some advantages, but it also has some disadvantages, which seems about right to me.  This is what makes it just an alternate mode of play rather than an exploit.  But when you get right down to it, an adept player with a keyboard and mouse setup is always going to be better at the game than an adept player playing using tab targeting.  This, again, is as it should be in my view.

4. Compared to "movement directed aiming" as a keyboard-only way to play, tab targeting also has advantages and disadvantages.  It's still slower to use, but it's able to hit angles that simply aren't possible with the movement-directed aiming.  You can definitely position yourself to hit a weakspot on an enemy in either manner of play, but in both cases you have to put in the work to line yourself up to do so. Thinking that tab-targeting is like auto-aim in an FPS is definitely not correct, in my view.


To me, there's not a problem here.  But there's been some grumbling about tab targeting existing, as well as some requests for enhancements to tab targeting that I definitely don't want to do because it makes tab targeting too powerful, so I felt it was a good idea to at least open a discussion.
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Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: Poll: Tab-targeting: keep or remove?
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2012, 06:59:21 pm »
Voted for the undying love option, but that's mainly because there's no other positive option for people who use the feature outside of that one... I use it intermittently and find it handy for some things and useless for other things. I don't think it's overpowered. If it were removed I would miss it, but I would survive.

Offline x4000

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Re: Poll: Tab-targeting: keep or remove?
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2012, 07:04:50 pm »
Have you tried the movement-directed aiming?  There's actually four different ways to play keyboard-only: dumbfire mode (the default), tab targeting (usable with the default), and movement-directed (where you fire in the direction you're moving, including angles if you hold at an angle).

Not that I'm really in favor of removing it at all, I've laid out my reasons why I think it's valid.
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Offline Terraziel

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Re: Poll: Tab-targeting: keep or remove?
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2012, 07:23:09 pm »
Yeah, I use it all the time, and would fully agree with all your points, It has too many downsides to be cheating, if i need to hit weak spots I have to stop using tab targeting and on things like fairies it's a complete nightmare.

For the record I use it mainly because I only play on my laptop and touchpads do not lend themselves to gaming, without it I probably wouldn't play half as much as I do.


Offline Dizzard

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Re: Poll: Tab-targeting: keep or remove?
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2012, 08:21:55 pm »
I don't have an option I can select in this poll.

It isn't a case where I can't live without it....but in certain situations I would say I use it and I'm happy to have it there.

Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: Poll: Tab-targeting: keep or remove?
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2012, 10:19:07 pm »
I find it pretty handy for fighting the cave bats, because it allows me to focus more on my dodging and not worry about constantly adjusting my mouse pointer. Outside of that I wouldn't miss it terribly. But I do like having the option.

Offline x4000

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Re: Poll: Tab-targeting: keep or remove?
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2012, 11:06:41 pm »
I don't have an option I can select in this poll.

It isn't a case where I can't live without it....but in certain situations I would say I use it and I'm happy to have it there.

Fixed it for you. :)
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Offline Coppermantis

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Re: Poll: Tab-targeting: keep or remove?
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2012, 01:19:39 am »
I use it pretty often. I'm not sure why, I just seem to have an easier time correcting to do a critical hit by jumping than aiming. I'd say keep it, but if it were removed I could learn to live without it.
I can already tell this is going to be a roller coaster ride of disappointment.

Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Poll: Tab-targeting: keep or remove?
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2012, 06:10:05 am »
I find it pretty handy for fighting the cave bats, because it allows me to focus more on my dodging and not worry about constantly adjusting my mouse pointer. Outside of that I wouldn't miss it terribly. But I do like having the option.

Same here, I use it on shadow bats and maybe the occasional enemy that I can't get within my screen area consistently. Basically when I can't really see the enemy. Oh and when I accidentally activate it because I don't know how to turn it off.

Offline Hyfrydle

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Re: Poll: Tab-targeting: keep or remove?
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2012, 06:54:25 am »
I use it alot and would really miss it if it was removed. My fingers aren't as fast as they used to be so it makes it a little less frantic for me.

Please don't remove it.

Offline Moo

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Re: Poll: Tab-targeting: keep or remove?
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2012, 08:34:48 am »
I don't heavily use it, but sometimes it's really handy - particularly when trying to target flying enemies that have gone upwards out of sight. It might not be as effective as manual targeting, but when you can't actually see the target and have no way of getting up to them, it's the best option.

Offline x4000

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Re: Poll: Tab-targeting: keep or remove?
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2012, 10:40:13 am »
Seems like an enormously clear consensus to me!
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Offline zebramatt

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Re: Poll: Tab-targeting: keep or remove?
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2012, 11:28:53 am »
I voted for not having an opinion because I pretty much don't.

Although if I did it might be that leaving it in with its drawbacks has the potential for you having to explain the above to every new person who wants to use it but wonders why it's not more effective.

Stick the justification in an FAQ, maybe?

Offline x4000

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Re: Poll: Tab-targeting: keep or remove?
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2012, 11:30:22 am »
Yeah, I think that makes good sense.
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Offline HellishFiend

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Re: Poll: Tab-targeting: keep or remove?
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2012, 05:39:35 pm »
I like it. I'm not much for side scrollers/platformers, but they become more livable for me when I can focus on configuring my character, selecting the right attack, and dodging, rather than having to throw proper aiming in there as well. That makes it frustrating for me, or I have to turn down the difficulty, neither option of which is appealing.

That being said, I played for several hours at first without even knowing about tab-targetting, and did ok. But since I found out about it, I've been using it exclusively and enjoy the combat much more with it.
Time to roll out another ball of death.