Official "Lets talk about the store" thread

[khadgar]

First off, great idea on the store. I think it's a wonderful counterweight to the randomness of the game. However, I see a potential issue when it comes to a player deciding what to buy (in multiplayer).

As I see it, there are two types of items. There are items that directly benefit the player (all the enchants, upgrade stones, and scrolls), and then there are the items that only effect the continent/world, with no tangible benefit to the player (seek survivor, wind shelter). This could provide a conflict of interest, as every player would rather get 12 free enchants than buy a seek survivor scroll. This could be offset by each of a server's players donating part of the cost to a single player who makes the purchase. This might very well happen, but I'm not sure.

What do you guys think will happen? As you play more on your own servers, what do you see actually happening on the ground? Do you think this is/will be an issue, or do you think the spirit of teamwork will trump all?

[MouldyK]

Speaking from a person who only plays the server with one friend only, I believe we would just use the shards for our own gain unless we needed a buoy or windmill or something badly and had enough shards between us to purchase it.

I beleive that would be a fair way for many servers too as it is up to playters whether they want to help the team or not. They just won't get access to the Bran Muffins at the end.

[Drjones013]

This actually fixes a lot of the problems I was having with character death before. I made up for lack of skill with summonable creatures (and still love the rhino). This should allow me to buy the upgrade crystals necessary to keep up with other players.

Kudos!

[TechSY730]

My only complaint so far is that many of the items are too cheap, especially the upgrade stones.

Other than that, I'm pretty happy with it.

[Terraziel]

Enchants are far too granular and too cheap, Upgrade stones and platform/crates are far too cheap, as it stands acquiring any of them through exploration is wasting your time.

The guardian powers and scrolls are ok though.

[Penumbra]

I think I would be fine if the amount dropped were lowered to just 2-3. That would effectively raise the prices by 10x.

I don't know, this is a huge thing to balance all at once. It will work out eventually, and its a wonderful addition.

[nanostrike]

Enchants are far too granular and too cheap, Upgrade stones and platform/crates are far too cheap, as it stands acquiring any of them through exploration is wasting your time.

The guardian powers and scrolls are ok though.

I kinda disagree.  Upgrade Stones, platforms, and enchants SHOULD be cheap.  If they're not, you just grind for them and the store has no purpose.

That's the store's real purpose, too: To by pass grinding by allowing you to buy things quickly.  Those upgrade stones might seem inexpensive, but honestly, it's only enough to upgrade one character and he could die in seconds.  And the platforms/crates should be cheap as well, as they're a main form of transportation and, frankly, it gets boring as hell having to grind buildings just to get them.

[Terraziel]

It took me 15 minutes to acquire 1000 shards. That is.....

2,500 crates or
5,000 platforms or
100 upgrade stones or
1 Enchant of the specific slot I want.

If you are using 2,500 crates or 5,000 platforms every 15 minutes there is something up, if you are using 100 upgrade stones every 15 minutes there is something up, the enchant one is just horribly unbalanced.

you could lower the amounts of platforms\crates per purchase to a 10th of what they are and it still wouldn't even approach acquiring grinding. you would still be earning them quicker than you could use them.

Same with upgrade stones, if you are losing a fully upgraded character every half hour then you need to seriously rethink your strategy.

[nanostrike]

It took me 15 minutes to acquire 1000 shards. That is.....

2,500 crates or
5,000 platforms or
100 upgrade stones or
1 Enchant of the specific slot I want.

If you are using 2,500 crates or 5,000 platforms every 15 minutes there is something up, if you are using 100 upgrade stones every 15 minutes there is something up, the enchant one is just horribly unbalanced.

you could lower the amounts of platforms\crates per purchase to a 10th of what they are and it still wouldn't even approach acquiring grinding. you would still be earning them quicker than you could use them.

Same with upgrade stones, if you are losing a fully upgraded character every half hour then you need to seriously rethink your strategy.

The Crates/Platforms are cheap, yes, but IMO, they should be free or a spell anyway as they're so commonly used.

As for the other stuff...like I said, all it does it cut down on the grind.  In that 15 minutes, you could've:

-Gotten several random Enchants from grinding Maze Rooms inside a Pyramid
-Gotten well over a hundred upgrade stones by grinding Minibosses in Caves (You know they drop 25 stones each now, right?)
-Gotten all sorts of random crap in Stashes.


It's only "More Efficient" because you can get Platforms/Boxes without the grind and you can non-randomly get an Enchant.  That's it.  Beyond that, it's more time-efficient to actually go get the stuff on your own.  It's for convenience and to help newer players, really.  If anything needs tweaked, it's the Stashes themselves.  They typically have junk that isn't worth your time.

The Random Enchants could be tweaked a bit.  I like the "Right/Left/Torso/Legs" being 1,000 because you don't know what you're going to get.  But some of the others, like the Jumping Enchant, could be a bit more expensive, because they're a lot more specific.

As for the others, like the Acid Gills, Elemental Enchants, and the like...I think they're adequately priced for what they are.  Getting several thousand shards isn't something you can do instantly and there should be an appropriate reward to spend that amount of effort on.

[Terraziel]

I'm going to chop your post up a bit for simplicity....

The Crates/Platforms are cheap, yes, but IMO, they should be free or a spell anyway as they're so commonly used.

Frankly that's what I was going to suggest as well, if we are going to devalue them to the point they are now, then there is no point not making them a spell.

-Gotten several random Enchants from grinding Maze Rooms inside a Pyramid
-Gotten well over a hundred upgrade stones by grinding Minibosses in Caves (You know they drop 25 stones each now, right?)
-Gotten all sorts of random crap in Stashes.

And I would argue against enemies dropping that many upgrades as well. Currently upgrade stones are fully in the "totally devalued" camp, as it stands they might as well drop them completely and just let you pick your 10 upgrades for free.

The other point here of course is, that I would be getting these things PLUS the stuff from the store. It's not as if monsters would suddenly stop dropping shards if I went out with a goal rather than aimlessly.

It's only "More Efficient" because you can get Platforms/Boxes without the grind and you can non-randomly get an Enchant.  That's it.  Beyond that, it's more time-efficient to actually go get the stuff on your own.  It's for convenience and to help newer players, really. 

The Random Enchants could be tweaked a bit.  I like the "Right/Left/Torso/Legs" being 1,000 because you don't know what you're going to get.  But some of the others, like the Jumping Enchant, could be a bit more expensive, because they're a lot more specific.

You downplay the enchant selection a fair bit, if for example I want to get a better torso enchant then it is far, far more to my benefit to grind and buy torso enchants than it is to grind and gather them through containers, and it will only be more so as they add new enchant types, I could play for hours and not get a torso enchant from containers, as opposed to one every 15 minutes from the store.

Just for some clarity here, I'm not against the store, I'm solely against the store devaluing the things it sells. If, for example, the enchants from the store were just as random as from containers I would have no problems with them being sold there.

Nor am I against the idea of other things being buffed to make up for the store, if we decide that the solution to easily available enchants at the store is to make the ones from containers just as easily available then fine, but as it stands the scales are far in favour of the store.

[Drjones013]

If you have to buy upgrade stones every 15 minutes then yes, there's something up, but if you needed those upgrade stones in 15 minutes, isn't it nice that you can get them? I'm sure you'd rather spend the shards on something else (you won't be constantly buying stones) and besides which, they aren't trivialized any more than character death itself. I've had moments where I've died in less than five minutes and a second death two minutes later-- drained my entire supply of stones. I had to try and get stones again while dodging tier 3 enemies and yep, dead again. I'd have really appreciated the ability to buy the stones so I could focus on something else.

[nanostrike]

I've had moments where I've died in less than five minutes and a second death two minutes later-- drained my entire supply of stones. I had to try and get stones again while dodging tier 3 enemies and yep, dead again. I'd have really appreciated the ability to buy the stones so I could focus on something else.

Bingo.  You'll be surprised how fast you can run through those when things get nasty.

Plus in multiplayer, it's always nice to have spares you can give to new players.



I still think the store's enchants aren't really a big deal.  If you get a "Seeker" Enchant and go farm some pyramids, you'll not only get a bunch of (Probably whatever your 'Seeker' is) Enchants, but now you'll also have Shards to buy more.  I really don't think it's "Killing the value" of anything.

Hell, on most servers I play on, they have the "Global Enchant Sharing" enabled, so a couple of people getting Enchant containers makes you have more enchants than you'd ever have anyway.

Besides, you're forgetting the part about enchant quality.  The more Enchant Containers you get, the better quality of enchants you'll find.  Buying from the store doesn't count towards this.



If anything, I'd say buff up the Enchant containers a bit.  Make them give 15%-20% of an enchant per container (And make areas that are SATURATED with them like Maze Rooms be "Stash-Only".  If Maze Rooms were clear at the back of a Pyramid, but you knew you could get half a dozen or more enchants from one, they'd actually be worthwhile to seek out.

[junker154]

The main problem so far is that most items are really cheap (Grinding stones and Enchantements) and it is actually not that hard to amass a larger sum of conscious shards.

They should decrease the amount of CS that mobs drop or increase the prices.

[Misery]

If you have to buy upgrade stones every 15 minutes then yes, there's something up, but if you needed those upgrade stones in 15 minutes, isn't it nice that you can get them? I'm sure you'd rather spend the shards on something else (you won't be constantly buying stones) and besides which, they aren't trivialized any more than character death itself. I've had moments where I've died in less than five minutes and a second death two minutes later-- drained my entire supply of stones. I had to try and get stones again while dodging tier 3 enemies and yep, dead again. I'd have really appreciated the ability to buy the stones so I could focus on something else.

It seems dependant on the player somewhat.

In my case, the stones have next to no value.

I dont die any less than I ever did (though, I dunno, maybe I'm not dying as much as other players for all I know), and I have *800* stones.   This is AFTER creating a couple of specialized characters that I can switch to in the settlement, and of course having my currently used character be fully upgraded.   I dont need to bother with the stones now any more than I need more platforms (4000 of those.....)


I do think the shop prices need changing..... it does make some things way too easy (of course the shop feature JUST came out, so kinda expected imbalances), and something needs to be done with the Upgrade Stones as well, as it seems for alot of players that those things may as well not even exist.

[Quaix]

And make areas that are SATURATED with them like Maze Rooms be "Stash-Only".  If Maze Rooms were clear at the back of a Pyramid, but you knew you could get half a dozen or more enchants from one, they'd actually be worthwhile to seek out.

I really like the idea of making maze rooms less common and maybe slightly smaller. They're just too big, and exploring one fully triggers my 'grindy' spider sense.