Author Topic: Nominations for "Most Needed Change To Strategy Game" poll  (Read 4957 times)

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Nominations for "Most Needed Change To Strategy Game" poll
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2013, 06:30:21 pm »
Yea, the option to skip the tutorial (forced strategic actions and intro text interjections) has been brought up before.

Just to draw comparisons:

For me during AI war games, I have been known to restart no less then 6 times over 3 hours for <petty reason> before.

However, because I had the optbion to simply restart right into the "meat and potatoes" as it were, I have never minded it.

My first AVWW 2 story was a smashing success, because everything was new. Since then, I have not advanced past turn 4 because by the time I start turn 2, I have become tired.

The option to jump ahead and skip everything before the end of turn 1 I think, a "quick start" option, would get the ball rolling for me at least.

All the text, hints, etc after this point could remain (could be examined later) but the ability to jump straight into the "sandbox" so to be speak, would be great.
Hmm, yea, a "quick start" that:
- starts you on turn 3
- with someone already on the farm (with 1 turn's food income added to the stockpile)
- and someone already on an already-built clinic (with its cost deducted from the stockpile; the clinic wouldn't have had a chance to run yet, but each soldier would have +2 power from soldier-autoheal)
- and 2 randomly-chosen purifications done

That could work.

And some kind of tooltip on the quick-start button that issues bodily threats to reviewers thinking of using it for their first game.

Edit: for that last reason, it would need to be labelled "Skip Tutorial (not for first-time players)" or something like that.
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Offline chemical_art

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Re: Nominations for "Most Needed Change To Strategy Game" poll
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2013, 06:53:56 pm »
That sounds about right Keith:

Just make it so that, if the quick start option presents what would have happened before "sandbox mode" is released what most players would have done, so as to get out any tutorials so that a player has the option of fast restarts for quick and dirty strategic strategy sessions and / or new playthroughs, I'll be happy.

Odds are once 1.0 is released I'll do the tutorial one more time, because I DO care about the backstory, but after that I must beg that I can just start new playthroughs that let me play.
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Nominations for "Most Needed Change To Strategy Game" poll
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2013, 07:53:39 pm »
let me play.
What do you think we're trying to do, make games?

;)
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Offline madcow

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Re: Nominations for "Most Needed Change To Strategy Game" poll
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2013, 07:58:33 pm »
I thought this and AI war were training simulators for the dark days ahead!

Offline TechSY730

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Re: Nominations for "Most Needed Change To Strategy Game" poll
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2013, 08:06:59 pm »
I thought this and AI war were training simulators for the dark days ahead!

Now I want to see some epic story (canon, fanfiction, or whatever) that connects the "plots" from all three games. Tidalis about humanity trying to figure out how to survive in a now strange land now that their resources have been "pulled up from under their feet", and learn new, strange skills to survive.
AVWW1 is about taking those skills and beginning to rebuild some and beginning to fight back against the oppressive empire.
(Insert AVWW2 "summary" once I get at least the basic story of it from the intro)
AI War is about now taking the now reclaimed immediate area and basic functionality base and expanding to finally take out the head of the threat once and for all.

Offline madcow

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Offline Bluddy

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Re: Nominations for "Most Needed Change To Strategy Game" poll
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2013, 08:40:11 pm »
I just played a long-ish session a few nights ago.

It seems to me that the tower that purifies a whole 'layer' further than what your survivors have done so far is immensely powerful and important. I can't imagine doing well in the game without it (and I'm on default difficulty). The town hall is also very powerful, but because it needs to be constantly activated to be useful, it has a much better chance of being destroyed before you get too many survivors out of it.

Compare these two to the pyramid. I'd love for it to stun Demonaica, but all it does it prevent spell casting for 3 turns (IIRC), which is not nearly enough to compete with the other structures.

Also, I can't figure out what Demonaica's range is (3 or 4?) and that makes him very unpredictable. I'd like to be able to see how far he can go in a turn.

I'm also not sure what use shelters (of different varieties) are. A survivor can be
a) powering an artifact of some sort (town hall, tower)
b) tending to a clinic
c) farming
d) clearing out impasses
e) building a factory or a clinic
so why would I want the survivor in a shelter? It's a waste of a resource. Is the shelter only there to improve the safety of survivors as they cross the continent from one useful thing to another?

What does it mean that forest shelters are ignored by Demonaica? Do most things attract Demonaica? How does that work?

Offline Misery

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Re: Nominations for "Most Needed Change To Strategy Game" poll
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2013, 12:11:41 am »
I just played a long-ish session a few nights ago.

It seems to me that the tower that purifies a whole 'layer' further than what your survivors have done so far is immensely powerful and important. I can't imagine doing well in the game without it (and I'm on default difficulty). The town hall is also very powerful, but because it needs to be constantly activated to be useful, it has a much better chance of being destroyed before you get too many survivors out of it.

Compare these two to the pyramid. I'd love for it to stun Demonaica, but all it does it prevent spell casting for 3 turns (IIRC), which is not nearly enough to compete with the other structures.

Also, I can't figure out what Demonaica's range is (3 or 4?) and that makes him very unpredictable. I'd like to be able to see how far he can go in a turn.

I'm also not sure what use shelters (of different varieties) are. A survivor can be
a) powering an artifact of some sort (town hall, tower)
b) tending to a clinic
c) farming
d) clearing out impasses
e) building a factory or a clinic
so why would I want the survivor in a shelter? It's a waste of a resource. Is the shelter only there to improve the safety of survivors as they cross the continent from one useful thing to another?

What does it mean that forest shelters are ignored by Demonaica? Do most things attract Demonaica? How does that work?


Demonaica's range is exactly three.   I'm pretty sure this was in the patch notes at some point relatively recently, and if I recall correctly it's three on every single difficulty?   He was WAY too unpredictable before in terms of how far he could move, is what I think the reasoning was with that change.  It's muuuuuuch better now.   He's still quite unpredictable in terms of not knowing where he's going to target next, or what spell he'll use and just where he'll cast it on, and THAT is fine, but unpredictable move range was a nasty thing.


As for stuff for the strategic game, hmmm.....


Some things that were already mentioned, particularly the tutorial skip.... this though needs to include the bits that happen sometimes after wind-generator destruction.   I've seen them a bazillion times already, dont need to see them with every restart.   The tutorial skip option NEEDS to happen, that one just drives me crazy.

And also as mentioned already, a display of what areas have perks and what areas have been cleared of them.   Particularly with all of the monsters in place, it's not uncommon that I will enter a cave, only to find that it's unusually risky with the things I have currently available, so I often figure "Ok, I'll come back to this cave when I have more perks or the next spell tier", but then it's very hard to remember just which one it was.   Not to mention it would be a good idea to show which non-cave tiles have perks.... it originally took me forever to find out that farm tiles have perks in them as well, for example, so that could be very helpful for new players to see that at a glance.

Another one I just thought of:  When Demonaica moves, his move is represented by glowing red squares so you can see exactly what he did.   The monsters he summons though, use the same red color.... give them a different color, as it makes it easier to look at that way when they're close to each other.   Not a very important thing, but it'd be nice to have.

Hmm..... what else.....


I do think the problems I'd been rambling about lately related to food and scrap balance pretty much were the only real issues I had with the strategy side.... I cant think of any other complaints.  All of the different mechanics work well, there's LOTS of different types of tiles, and their locations in relation to other tiles really matters, and overall, pretty much every single decision has a real effect.... and alot of the time, it seems like there's no super-obvious answer.   It's really coming along excellently.

Offline madcow

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Re: Nominations for "Most Needed Change To Strategy Game" poll
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2013, 01:38:20 am »
I would suggest replacing the red glowing squares, with a red arrowed line that traces his movement. Not sure if maybe that's too hard to do, but it would look a lot more organic, and could be done with the other monsters as well.

Offline Nanashi

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Re: Nominations for "Most Needed Change To Strategy Game" poll
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2013, 02:13:59 am »
Separate colour silhouettes or some other identifier for each npc class. Relying on the movement number isn't intuitive.

Offline Penumbra

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Re: Nominations for "Most Needed Change To Strategy Game" poll
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2013, 08:48:23 am »
I've seen them a bazillion times already, dont need to see them with every restart.   The tutorial skip option NEEDS to happen, that one just drives me crazy.

I, too, find it annoying from a player perspective. However, the constant viewing of the tutorial information at least allows us to verify the information. I fear that if this functionality were given to us right now, we'd all just turn it off and leave potential errors or misinformation in there to trick new players at release.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Nominations for "Most Needed Change To Strategy Game" poll
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2013, 10:43:07 am »
Compare these two to the pyramid. I'd love for it to stun Demonaica, but all it does it prevent spell casting for 3 turns (IIRC), which is not nearly enough to compete with the other structures.
If it only prevented his spellcasting that would be a bug, but I've tested it a fair bit and it seems to work properly to me.  Anyway, what it does is prevent the overlord from doing anything (except the new pre-emergence monster summons) for 2 full turns.  That includes his movement, casting spells, or getting a free-summon or free-area spell for a deep gate or stratospheric citadel.  It's a pretty big deal.  As much as a mid/late-game amp tower pulse?  I dunno, probably not.  But they're both really important.

Quote
Also, I can't figure out what Demonaica's range is (3 or 4?) and that makes him very unpredictable. I'd like to be able to see how far he can go in a turn.
Exactly and always 3.  It's mentioned in some of the strategic overview text, and in more of them as of yesterday (I don't think that's been released yet though).

Quote
I'm also not sure what use shelters (of different varieties) are.
The little window in the bottom-left corner of the world map shows the danger-to-NPCs for the current region, and states that it's related to nearby shelter and threat tiles.  As the strategic overview tells you, shelter tiles help you a lot with that number and having a bad number there can hurt or kill your survivors.

Quote
What does it mean that forest shelters are ignored by Demonaica? Do most things attract Demonaica? How does that work?
It means he never knocks those tiles down.  Pretty much anything else that's useful he knocks down (the exception being the tiles that can be built into other structures, which I should probably amend its description to note he ignores them until built up).

Thanks for the feedback :)
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Nominations for "Most Needed Change To Strategy Game" poll
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2013, 11:01:10 am »
Separate colour silhouettes or some other identifier for each npc class. Relying on the movement number isn't intuitive.
I'm not sure I understand, because the three NPC classes already have 3 distinct icons (the soldier looks like he's throwing a punch, the scout looks like he's running, and the skirmisher... well, doesn't look like he's throwing a punch or running).  Does it need more than that?
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Nominations for "Most Needed Change To Strategy Game" poll
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2013, 11:05:40 am »
Ok, been about 24 hours, and we don't have a lot of time before release, so here's the poll: http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,12421.0.html :)
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Offline Teal_Blue

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Re: Nominations for "Most Needed Change To Strategy Game" poll
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2013, 01:12:33 pm »
keith.lamothe said :

[/quote]
Hmm, yea, a "quick start" that:
- starts you on turn 3
- with someone already on the farm (with 1 turn's food income added to the stockpile)
- and someone already on an already-built clinic (with its cost deducted from the stockpile; the clinic wouldn't have had a chance to run yet, but each soldier would have +2 power from soldier-autoheal)
- and 2 randomly-chosen purifications done

That could work.

And some kind of tooltip on the quick-start button that issues bodily threats to reviewers thinking of using it for their first game.

Edit: for that last reason, it would need to be labelled "Skip Tutorial (not for first-time players)" or something like that.
[/quote]





Actually, would it be possible to have the game check to see if there is a savefile for the game yet? And if there is, then to have a button come available to skip the opening.

But of course, for first time players and game reviewers, it wouldn't be on the menu at all.  :)

Just a thought,

-Teal

« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 01:15:50 pm by Teal_Blue »