Nominations for "Most Needed Change To Strategy Game" poll

[keith.lamothe]

1.0 is coming fairly soon, so I'm harassing y'all for more feedback on the strategy game

Basically: what things do you think need changed about it? 

If you want to suggest additions/new-mechanics you can (I want to know if that's what people want most) but we're not looking to do those in the current timeframe unless absolutely necessary (which I think it's fairly clear it's not absolutely necessary, but anyway).  Mainly looking for bugs, balance problems, user-education problems, etc.

Thanks

[Pepisolo]

I'm going to keep this short. Actually being able to see Demonaica and the summoned monsters' movements on the map screen after the turn ends.

[Panopticon]

I think a boost to the starting resources the player has available would be a good thing, perhaps based on the difficulty you choose. As it is now opening game strategy feels pretty static. At the beginning of the game you get pretty laser focused on food and clinics, neither of which stick around for a long time at least early in the game. You are forced to spend the majority of your starting resources on these specific buildings, and some bad luck with the RNG can really cripple a player, leaving him limping early on or even getting a game over screen.

What happens is that the opening of the game always feels pretty much the same. Start the game, go through the opening tutorial bits (some kind of skip tutorial function would be nice) and then trying to get your production started up before Demonaica gets out and starts stomping stuff flat and throwing around area denial spells. A little bit of breathing room here could go a long way to alleviating edge cases with the world map generation and give the player a bit more incentive to explore other possibilities in the opening game, or at least the feeling that it's possible to do so.

As it stands it feels very much like the player is forced towards optimal and static strategies in the opening game. This isn't necessarily bad, chess plays this way for example. It counters urges to explore and experiment in the opening of the game though and it seems to run against the themes of exploration and adventure.

[keith.lamothe]

I think a boost to the starting resources the player has available would be a good thing, perhaps based on the difficulty you choose.

The stockpiles have been bigger on the lower difficulties since over a month ago (iirc) and just a couple versions ago I boosted all the starting stockpile values a fair bit too.  Are you asking for more?

I don't really mind from a balance perspective (you'll run out eventually) but it makes a worse problem possible: players not realizing they need to care about those stockpiles until it's later in the game.  At that point they'll probably be in an unrecoverable situation and also have "lost" more time playing a game they now can't win.  If they're not going to be able to manage the early game with the current stockpile size, I don't think they'd win a game with a larger initial stockpile, it would just take longer before they crash-landed.

That said, based on Chris's playtesting feedback today I've substantially changed the early game to give more breathing room.

[Panopticon]

The breathing room is what I care about really, not the resources. Any way you can achieve that without boosting the starting resource pool is of course preferable. The only immediate way to get that breathing room that occurred to me was just the boost I suggested.

The main thing I'm concerned about is the opening game devolving into a set of optimal starting moves that the player has to achieve to continue to the more fun stuff.

[madcow]

The two biggies I can think of have to do with be UI.

First, there's no way to tell if a region is cleared of perks beyond visited or not.  Either a cleared note, a perks present note, or the ability to write our own notes onto a region are all workable solutions.

The second issue is a little more complex. It's quite possible (and is easy actually) to have a corrupted region, but not know the function of it.  This has a big impact on picking where to cleanse, as if you forget of a tile is useful or not you might waste turns going after it.  A legend is one fix. Another is to let us examine region details of a place even if we can't embark there yet.

A third issue related to UI is forgetting where we can build structures. Say we want a farm, clinic, or factory. It would be nice if we could pick a filter to highlight those regions where we can build one.

[Mick]

First, there's no way to tell if a region is cleared of perks beyond visited or not.  Either a cleared note, a perks present note, or the ability to write our own notes onto a region are all workable solutions.

Please vote support this issue: http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=10291

[madcow]

First, there's no way to tell if a region is cleared of perks beyond visited or not.  Either a cleared note, a perks present note, or the ability to write our own notes onto a region are all workable solutions.

Please vote support this issue: http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=10291

Done and done

[nas1m]

I just gave .728 a shot and I think it might be worthwhile to indicate the maximum strength of the monster that will emerge from a deep gate next (or the actual strength if you feel generous, Keith) - just because I got a survivor beaten to pulp by some Archeopterix or Velociraptor again when all I expected was another Wall Croc or Ice Bat.

Might be good to give the player a notion what to expect next turn...

Aside from that I am with the "indicate which regions still have perk tokens in them" stuff. This would definitely be an improvement in my point of view.

Another thing would be to indicate the maximum movement of a world map monster per turn, e.g. if checking out the region the monster is currently in (this might already be available, though). I was surprised more than once by monsters moving farther than Demonaica's usual 3 tiles...

[chemical_art]

These worries make me worry about re-jumping into this game.

Not in the sense of "once I know optimal methods, I'll still have trouble"

but

"there are a lot of pitfalls in learning this game, and I don't like the thought of trial and error."

I'm sorry I can't help more. With so many games avialable today, the thought of having to restart more then twice on one game makes me not want to try at all. Honestly, this is probably my core of fears.


Especially if I have to retry an tutorial over an over. Imagine just how a drag AI war is if you had to do a tutorial of any sort over and over.


Forced tutorials are not fun.

If I could simply jump straight into the meaty bits, i probably would not mind at all if I had to restart multiple times.

[Mick]

But if you never need to restart, isn't that basically saying you can't lose?

[chemical_art]

But if you never need to restart, isn't that basically saying you can't lose?

Sorry, trail of thinking, with numerous updates, is my latest posting style. It certainly isn't the best by far 

After examining why I don't like restarting, what I concluded, per above, is not the restarting itself, but the process of transitioning from "introduction" to "main game play" AKA a tutorial.

Give an option to bypass said tutorial to jump straight into turn 1, with no "must do X, Y, and Z"  in some form (no need to force a clinic due to a wounded person, or what have you) and I won't mind it.

[Pepisolo]

Just lost my first game. Quite enjoyed it. Losing can be fun. I was getting into the strategy game much more then the last time I properly tried. I let monsters overrun me, but I now know how to do better next time. I went down fighting, at least.

Tutorial skip might be nice, it can be tiresome scrolling through the same old dialogues.

[keith.lamothe]

Yea, the option to skip the tutorial (forced strategic actions and intro text interjections) has been brought up before.

[chemical_art]

Yea, the option to skip the tutorial (forced strategic actions and intro text interjections) has been brought up before.

Just to draw comparisons:

For me during AI war games, I have been known to restart no less then 6 times over 3 hours for <petty reason> before.

However, because I had the optbion to simply restart right into the "meat and potatoes" as it were, I have never minded it.

My first AVWW 2 story was a smashing success, because everything was new. Since then, I have not advanced past turn 4 because by the time I start turn 2, I have become tired.

The option to jump ahead and skip everything before the end of turn 1 I think, a "quick start" option, would get the ball rolling for me at least.

All the text, hints, etc after this point could remain (could be examined later) but the ability to jump straight into the "sandbox" so to be speak, would be great.