Just a note about what's going on with AVWW.

[x4000]

The game is definitely not being dumbed down.  However, it's really being streamlined in the sense that a lot of the extraneous ideas are being cut, and tons of new stuff is being added instead.  It's a very different sort of game this way, and in fact it's easier to learn the rules as a new player -- which I'm very pleased about.  But if you're thinking that means that it's easier to succeed on a reasonable difficulty, think again.   

EDIT: Another way to put it is that it's surface complexity is lower, but its depth is greater.  Kind of like Chess.  There are few pieces there, and the rules are easy for anyone to pick up in just a few minutes, but the depth there is crazy.  Not that we're going to be that deep or that surface-simple, but that's the easiest analogy I could think of.  Our goal with this was to keep players doing fun and interesting things for as much of their playtime as possible, and to therefore cut out things that seemed grindy, while at the same time presenting actually difficult choices that matter as often as possible.

It's what we always wanted to do with the game, but now I think we're finally getting there.

[zebramatt]

You're seriously killing me with this stuff!   

[Mánagarmr]

AVWW 2.0 is going to be interesting for sure. Will it be released at the same time as the graphics overhaul?

[x4000]

You're seriously killing me with this stuff!   

Sorry!

AVWW 2.0 is going to be interesting for sure. Will it be released at the same time as the graphics overhaul?

I've mentioned the two modes, and I believe I noted this somewhere way above in the pages and pages of commentary here (but maybe not, and in any case this thread is huge)... but basically the graphics overhaul is only going to be for the new mode.  The existing mode will continue to have the same graphics.  Why?  The new mode has different enemies, different objects, and a bunch of other stuff that's different.  We'd essentially have to do two art overhauls to make both updated to the new style.

In all respects, think of the current mode as being the "legacy" mode.  I'm really proud of it and I think it's really fun and unique for certain types of players, but the new mode appeals more to me and I think it will be what everyone else will prefer, too.  At any rate, it's the future in terms of where we're investing all our artwork stuff, too.

[Mánagarmr]

That's...rather radical. Interested to see what happens!

[x4000]

That's...rather radical.

Oh, you bet.  But exactly why will make perfect sense once you actually see what we're doing.

Interested to see what happens!

Glad to hear it! 

[chemical_art]

I never thought It'd happen again, but you somehow have made me excited for AVWW.

Hurray for depth!

[x4000]

Of course, we need to be careful not to set expectations too high; that's part of how we shot ourselves in the foot last time with this game.

[chemical_art]

I'm trying not too, but you are highlighting things I've thought for a long time about AVWW.

For a game meant to encourage you to just explore, there were so many shallow things that it hindered making anything streamlined. The game felt...clunky...no not that...disconnected? Things didn't mesh? It was not streamlined for me. The store was a great step in the right direction, but even the store felt out of place even if great mechanic wise.

There are so many things that just felt like...hinderances...like windtraps. I feel they slow down the game. Just let me explore, and as I get stronger I can go to new things. Better maybe to have enemy towers in effect were like mini sandstorms that you either avoid or take on.

Combine that with the "shallow" feel of the game, and it felt like a bad combination. Not shallow in "theres lots of things to do" but shallow in there was little complexity in the meta sense...maybe. To most accurate describe it is lack of depth. For example to get lieutenants its "get mats. build wind tunnels. Maybe find spell recipes. Get to lieutenants. Rinse and repeat."

It's ok to have clunkyness if its deep. Shallow is fine if really streamlined. But clunky and shallow? Yuck.



So hearing you are scraping some things to make it more streamlined, and in the process bring more depth, is exactly what I was wanting.

[keith.lamothe]

Of course, we need to be careful not to set expectations too high; that's part of how we shot ourselves in the foot last time with this game.

Whenever you open your mouth about the game, expectations will increase

Now to implement that foot-entry-prevention mechanism...

[x4000]

Yep, all agreed on the depth thing, chemical_art.  At the moment I think that AVWW is something that is fun for a while, or fun when you just want to explore around and shoot some monsters a bit, but it's not something that I find even myself coming back to.  That's one of the big things that we're aiming to fix, but it's not a slight set of changes to make that really work on all levels.

Keith: yeah, it's always tough to be both the chief evangelist for products we make, as well as trying not to be a Peter M sort of figure.

[icepick37]

but it's not something that I find even myself coming back to.  That's one of the big things that we're aiming to fix

Yay! You read my mind.    Love the game, but it loses it's hook after a bit.

[Hyfrydle]

Great to hear it's not been dumbed down. Really excited to see what it becomes waiting with baited breath for more news.

[Ixiohm]

I hope the enemy designs and most importantly the bosses get some love, so to make them more memorable.
I think interesting boss designs would really help in giving the game a more lasting appeal.
I think some really epic bosses of late are present in games like Biotic Commando Rearmed  and Intrusion 2.

[x4000]

Generally speaking, epic boss encounters on the scale of those two games requires an amazing amount of hand-crafting.  There's a reason those games are pretty short.  We're going to be de-emphasizing bosses in many ways, but will be improving them from what they were (part of the problem was that bosses were too frequent before).  Enemy designs are getting a lot of attention, yeah.  And enemy placement.