Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.

[Coppermantis]

Aquaurgist seems slightly OP right now, at least versus the current enemies. Sea slider blocks the projectiles, effectively nullifying the lumpy things and makes short work of everything else. The water sine allows me to kill things easily from behind a wall with no risk to myself. The other two spells seem fine, but with the first two I have not died in quite a while except for one henchman fight.

After reading the patch notes: Water Sine was BUFFED? I suppose that makes sense, as using it out in the open is tougher, but Sea Slider seems to cover any outdoor threats. In fact, Sea Slider covers almost all indoor threats as well. The fact that it stops enemy projectiles (at least the common ones that I see) means that it's essentially a shield as well. So I guess that's fine for WS to get a buff. Maybe SS should be nerfed a little so that it's not useful in so many situations.

[Gemzo]

Honestly it feels more like the other classes are weaker than aquaurgist stronger. Yes sea slider is good but the damage per second is fairly low. The caliber could be nerfed and it would be fine I think, since you can angle your shots to go around theirs with the sliding. As for water sine, I suggested it be buffed due to being fairly hard to use and since the slider doesn't do a whole lot of DPS either, making boss fights largely reliant on its then-overpowered ammo spell. Still, if the "par" is to be below this, then it should be nerfed. But I really think the other classes should just be brought up to this par; useful enough that you'd want to use it.

[madcow]

Awesome, I can make it past the first chunk now, great!



Have a few notes just from the first chunk though, but will actually get some playtime in to compile it all first.

[Coppermantis]

Honestly it feels more like the other classes are weaker than aquaurgist stronger. Yes sea slider is good but the damage per second is fairly low. The caliber could be nerfed and it would be fine I think, since you can angle your shots to go around theirs with the sliding. As for water sine, I suggested it be buffed due to being fairly hard to use and since the slider doesn't do a whole lot of DPS either, making boss fights largely reliant on its then-overpowered ammo spell. Still, if the "par" is to be below this, then it should be nerfed. But I really think the other classes should just be brought up to this par; useful enough that you'd want to use it.

Could be. It just seems that Aquaurgist is significantly stronger than the others that I've used so far.


Is it no longer possible to view the details of a region?

Nevermind, I didn't notice that it automatically shows :V

[Misery]

Quick bug that I immediately noticed, gonna mention it before I forget:    The whips dont work against projectiles whatsoever.   They just break.  Doesnt seem to matter what kind of enemy shot it is, it'll just smash the whip.

[Misery]

......ok.   The skelebot research facilities.   Either there's some goofy trick to completing these, or they're a complete mess, or the level at which I should be attacking them is unclear..... I cant tell, really.

Regardless of the spell class I choose (at least at my current level), these seem unbeatable.   Enemies that spawn in them tend to be alot of the sort that takes a moment to fight and defeat (and takes many hits usually).   The constant monster spawn after hacking the computer, well.... there just seems to be absolutely no way to deal with it.    There's too many of them, and it likes to spawn things like those nasty balloons or the green blobs..... and it spawns them super-often.   I like the idea of having a Metroid-ish escape scene, but the mechanic just doesnt work when you HAVE to stop to fight things every 10 seconds.  Enemies like bats, lumpy guys, or even worse, those squid things, you cant really always just ignore them.... the game WILL have them show up in spots that mean they're completely in the way.   Topping all that off, it seems that if I take even one or two hits, that too is then forcing me to stop and fight things because that health is NECESSARY. 

Not to mention that these areas are WAY too long, and the heap of spawned things in the area that you die in will still be there, making for a very tedious fight before you can try again.     One way or another, I'd say shorten these, and have it so that enemies spawned by the escape effect will just vanish if you die..... you have to beat all of the normal ones again ANYWAY, so it wont affect the challenge level of the area.

And with their being so many THINGS in one room, and all of them other than bats and crawlers cause random knockback, accidentally touching ONE of them means you're basically dead.  And of course if you accidentally land on a crawler when jumping around you're probably dead anyway.

The worst bit though:  The darkness.   If an escape mechanic is going to be used in this sort of area, these NEED to be lit up.  Half of the problem comes from crashing into things that you dont know are there.... but you cant slow down and move carefully, because the game spawns enemies ON you.  It's not like they come up chasing from behind.    Or even worse, crashing into things that you DO know are there..... but you run into them anyway, because you cant see the walls nearby, and try to jump over or something and get stuck, and smack right into them as a result.  I cant even imagine these being possible whatsoever on higher difficulties, not unless you get like a zillion perks and such first.   Again though, I might be at the wrong level to even attempt these, but I still think the darkness should be completely removed, at least for the escape scene (it makes alot more sense when you're going TOWARDS the hacking room, at least).  Not to mention there's already so many dark areas in the game as it is....

[Lancefighter]

Lance's Alpha Funtime server is going to come down for a bit, after the second world was vanquished. I kinda actually need to spend some time playing it, instead of watching others play it :p

Also, uh. I really am not finding myself liking the combat particularly much. I dont really like the way spells interact with each other (the whole bigger spell completely breaking other spells, mostly). I feel like the answer shouldnt be 'spam a big spell'. I feel like instead we need to make all spells go through each other, or make all spells break each other. I honestly dont know which of these I like more.

[Coppermantis]

Lance's Alpha Funtime server is going to come down for a bit, after the second world was vanquished. I kinda actually need to spend some time playing it, instead of watching others play it :p

Also, uh. I really am not finding myself liking the combat particularly much. I dont really like the way spells interact with each other (the whole bigger spell completely breaking other spells, mostly). I feel like the answer shouldnt be 'spam a big spell'. I feel like instead we need to make all spells go through each other, or make all spells break each other. I honestly dont know which of these I like more.

I like the combat a lot except for what you described. I think that no spells should collide at all except for very few exceptions (like maybe Aquaurgist's special ability, which makes sense as a shield).


On a positive note, the macro game is incredibly fun.

[Misery]

Lance's Alpha Funtime server is going to come down for a bit, after the second world was vanquished. I kinda actually need to spend some time playing it, instead of watching others play it :p

Also, uh. I really am not finding myself liking the combat particularly much. I dont really like the way spells interact with each other (the whole bigger spell completely breaking other spells, mostly). I feel like the answer shouldnt be 'spam a big spell'. I feel like instead we need to make all spells go through each other, or make all spells break each other. I honestly dont know which of these I like more.

I think the design goal is indeed to make it so that JUST spamming one spell wont get you very far.  Dont forget this is still a pretty early version.   And the enemy selection does also influence it, and there's a bazillion of them that really arent in the game yet.  Like the Forgician class right now (at least, where I'm currently at in the game).   If I have to face one of those squid things with this class, there's nothing that I can really just spam to deal with these guys without taking many hits.   The basic shot simply doesnt work on them (because of their projectiles), so the solution is to get close by using Campfire, and then hit them with.... er.... that wave attack that makes small explosions appear at a specific distance from the player.   That's a good example of the combat really working out pretty well, and that particular class is pretty well balanced for it.  Even just something simple like bats; campfire wont work on them, and the best way to take them out is with that wave shot.... unless they get close enough to pass through it's range, at which point I either have to use the basic shot, or the ammo blast.

Some spells still need working on though.   Technozoologist in particular seems to need some tweaking.  And I still havent the foggiest idea what Blinding Flash is useful for, aside from smacking bats that get too close.

But if there's any particular spell that seems unusually spammable in any particular class, you just need to point it out and such so they're aware of it.   

Even balanced though, some spells are just going to be really, really good at taking down certain foes (which is probably how it should be).  Light Rocket just completely wrecks those lumpy guys, for instance.... but not always that helpful against some other foes.


Well, that's how it all seems to me so far, anyway.

Lance's Alpha Funtime server is going to come down for a bit, after the second world was vanquished. I kinda actually need to spend some time playing it, instead of watching others play it :p

Also, uh. I really am not finding myself liking the combat particularly much. I dont really like the way spells interact with each other (the whole bigger spell completely breaking other spells, mostly). I feel like the answer shouldnt be 'spam a big spell'. I feel like instead we need to make all spells go through each other, or make all spells break each other. I honestly dont know which of these I like more.

I like the combat a lot except for what you described. I think that no spells should collide at all except for very few exceptions (like maybe Aquaurgist's special ability, which makes sense as a shield).


On a positive note, the macro game is incredibly fun.

If the spells didn't collide though, the game would probably devolve back to what AVWW was.... suddenly, the basic straight-shot type spells would work on EVERYTHING, and quite alot of spells would just instantly become useless in comparison.   Not to mention that some enemy patterns would suddenly become unbalanced.... those squid guys for example, suddenly many spell sets would have great trouble dealing with these, yet at the same time anything with enough range would just delete them.


I'm thinking the combat isnt going to completely agree with everyone.... but that's the case with most games, really.


Been enjoying the heck outta it myself, really.   Unless I crash into one of those crawlers, then I just yell at the screen a bunch.

[LaughingThesaurus]

I'm loving the tactical nature of the combat. I've yet to revisit, but my big problem was always that you can't just make mistakes at all, at least not in the early game. Apparently later you have ridiculous amounts of health, but early on, you potentially die in 3 hits, or in as many as maybe 6 if you're lucky and are fighting bats. I'd rather have permadeath-switch-to-survivor or even lose the whole game on defeat and be able to take ten times the damage than dying so quickly.

[tigersfan]

So, the crawler things you guys keep talking about is the infamous Land Octopus, and, I agree, it needs a nerf. I'm not sure if I'll have time to get it in there before we hit beta, but, I'll give it a shot.

And yes, later in the game, you can get lots of health, but you'll also NEED more health.

[Misery]

I'm loving the tactical nature of the combat. I've yet to revisit, but my big problem was always that you can't just make mistakes at all, at least not in the early game. Apparently later you have ridiculous amounts of health, but early on, you potentially die in 3 hits, or in as many as maybe 6 if you're lucky and are fighting bats. I'd rather have permadeath-switch-to-survivor or even lose the whole game on defeat and be able to take ten times the damage than dying so quickly.

Kinda makes me wonder if it's something to do with the damage scaling?

Generally you'd think it'd be HARDER when you're near the end, not easier.  But you're right, it's harder towards the beginning.

So, the crawler things you guys keep talking about is the infamous Land Octopus, and, I agree, it needs a nerf. I'm not sure if I'll have time to get it in there before we hit beta, but, I'll give it a shot.

And yes, later in the game, you can get lots of health, but you'll also NEED more health.

.....octopus?   Wait, what?  I'm not too sure about the others in the thread, but the "crawlers" I'm complaining about most of the time are those little white monkey things, or whatever they are, that crawl on the walls.  The ones that appear to be made entirely of glitches

I actually dont have any trouble with that squid thing with the blue bullets.  Either Campfire or Light Rocket make it pretty easy to deal with as long as you're careful, and I'm sure there's more options as you go further.

[tigersfan]

Ahh, I'm sorry, those are the wererats then, and yeah, I think they might be OP too.

[MouldyK]

The ones that appear to be made entirely of glitches

Those and the fact some of the holes where mercenary coins were had something spamming the entrance constantly made me turn the game off quite early on sadly. That and the fact using a controller was not up to how I wanted the game to be on the Overworld. I will hopefully return to try again later.

[Cyprene]

A second vote on Skelebot Research facilities needing rebalanced.   I had kind of a nasty experience with mine last night.

It's so dark that you can't even see the enemies as they spawn.  So I had to stumble blindly down a black corridor while offscreen menaces fired at me from beyond my field of view.  Then it spawned some kind of green poison-shooting thing that "blocked" all my attacks while I was in a dead end corner.  It slowly wore me down while I ran back and fourth in a four foot area like an idiot.    

Personally I think you might do better if you just let the players see everywhere in most buildings, with the dark ones being the exception to the rule.  You spent a lot of money to make such pretty art (I'm a big fan of the clockwork pattern) and when we're inside a building we can barely see it.   Also, given how much damage those white mini-lions do, it's very, very frustrating to take a leap and land on one, and maybe have to restart the whole level by walking back from the Overlord's castle.