Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.

[Oralordos]

I think it looks fine for what it is too, but I don't think that's so much the problem as it is that there are a LOT of sidescrollers made on similar budgets to that just look better.

I like this one!

Me too!

[Brise Bonbons]

I left a few comments over on RPS trying to correct some misunderstandings I found there, but to be frank I had to agree with one person that the art still looks rough in places (now that I go back and look, I worded that post horribly. Oh dear, I'll edit that). In doing so I also mentioned that the art is not necessarily final, and that I was under the impression this version still had placeholder art in places.

To be clear, my feeling is that the art looks solid as a whole, but there are a few assets that do not appear to be polished to the same level of the work as a whole, and while watching someone else play the game they do stand out a bit as such. I'm thinking of this one shack/house and a specific character run cycle which looks a bit wonky because the legs don't articulate at the knees quite right.

I don't want to analyze it too much more than that until I get my hands on the game in whatever state I finally play it. But I feel that these impressions are best raised now while there is still a chance to correct any issues that Arcen and Heavy Cat agree can be changed with minimal work.

[chemical_art]

Just to clarify, you cannot in any way judge the footage on its graphics. The alpha wasn't really interested in that, so many placeholders / other "pre beta art" things are used, so roughness is the default, not the exception.

[Misery]

Just to clarify, you cannot in any way judge the footage on its graphics. The alpha wasn't really interested in that, so many placeholders / other "pre beta art" things are used, so roughness is the default, not the exception.

Indeed not, but the entire problem with it is:  People will do so ANYWAY.

To be honest, I kinda think the video shouldnt have been made yet.    Heck, even I think the placeholder art or "rough" bits are very obvious in the game right now, and I'm not always exactly the most observant person when it comes to art, due to the fact that I tend not to give a crap.   So others who DO care about art are going to notice, and they're going to complain.  And pointing out "Hey, this is alpha footage, keep that in mind" seems to only rarely have any real effect, because people can be dolts that way.

And despite the fact that the final product is likely to be the sort of graphics that more people really will agree with, many who see the rough alpha footage may decide then and there that "it sucks", and never take another look at it.   Which would be a damn shame.


Regardless though, I think the game's graphics are going in the right direction so far.   Hard to say exactly what the final version will look like, but it's looking good so far.

[Coppermantis]

Just to clarify, you cannot in any way judge the footage on its graphics. The alpha wasn't really interested in that, so many placeholders / other "pre beta art" things are used, so roughness is the default, not the exception.

Indeed not, but the entire problem with it is:  People will do so ANYWAY.

To be honest, I kinda think the video shouldnt have been made yet.    Heck, even I think the placeholder art or "rough" bits are very obvious in the game right now, and I'm not always exactly the most observant person when it comes to art, due to the fact that I tend not to give a crap.   So others who DO care about art are going to notice, and they're going to complain.  And pointing out "Hey, this is alpha footage, keep that in mind" seems to only rarely have any real effect, because people can be dolts that way.

And despite the fact that the final product is likely to be the sort of graphics that more people really will agree with, many who see the rough alpha footage may decide then and there that "it sucks", and never take another look at it.   Which would be a damn shame.


Regardless though, I think the game's graphics are going in the right direction so far.   Hard to say exactly what the final version will look like, but it's looking good so far.

This is the unfortunate truth. I saw some of the comments of AVWW1's Alpha video (back when it was top-down) and a lot of people were bashing how horrible it looked. No one ever seems to realize that Alphas almost always are pretty poor looking compared to final products.

Heck, take a look at Starcraft II's early days. That was a HIDEOUS game, but now it looks just fine and is one of the most popular games in the world.

[Misery]

This is the unfortunate truth. I saw some of the comments of AVWW1's Alpha video (back when it was top-down) and a lot of people were bashing how horrible it looked. No one ever seems to realize that Alphas almost always are pretty poor looking compared to final products.

Heck, take a look at Starcraft II's early days. That was a HIDEOUS game, but now it looks just fine and is one of the most popular games in the world.

......well, there was some stuff I was going to say here in this topic, but I saw the link there, had a look, and it killed my train of thought by punting it off a cliff and then dropping nukes on it.   You're right, that early build of SC2 is ugly as heck.   Just...... blegh.   It's SO bad it actually becomes hard to believe.   Just.... amazing.

On a more positive note, so far it looks like most of the comments on the video for AVWW 2 are actually pretty positive.   Not a bad video for showing basic concepts of the game except for the bit where OH GOD FIREBALL NOISE EXPLOSION BOOM and cant hear anything other than that while that's going on, heh.   

[Teal_Blue]

I like the look of the graphics alot, and when i went left instead of right when i left the Evil dudes castle i had to jump over these like mean light pillar thingees and then i got to safety, down a slope to a valley that was Absolutely Beautiful! I wish i could post a pic, but go take a look, go left and jump over the light dudes and it is really really cool! just how the drawings have this really nice style to them, and how everything just fits together, and the new characters are very well done and i like the new animations and there are more animations than before in the old game and it really makes the new game look good!

Anyway,    I am really, really liking this alot. I am currently dying alot too, haha, but that is totally ok, i am really having a blast with this new game. 

Sign me up for the expansion! 

-T

 

[Lancefighter]

you end up walking through the 'left' area if you enter the castle from the worldmap instead of dying.

[khadgar]

Very close to beating the boss for the first time on Lance's server, but I'm tired. I'm going to log on tomorrow to find him all deaded up!

[Mánagarmr]

The problem people have is that AVWW 2 does not look as good as other indie 2D platformers of similar budget.

Well, that's a rather daft statement from them then. They have absolutely no idea about the budgets behind the games.

[x4000]

People tend to assume infinite time, budget, and so forth.  And to hold infinitely-generated games of any sort to a similar standard as something that is hand-crafted all the way through is also rather silly.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter what some random internet commenters might say, despite however much it bugs me.  People have this attitude that "if I hate it, I must speak up."  Which is something you don't see as much in music.  How much of the internet thinks that... I don't know... Celine Dion or Josh Groban or Chris Cornell are utterly horrible?  A goodly number of people for each, I'd wager (though I'd also wager on relative percentages there, heh).  The thing is, each of those artists has a specific audience and cater well to them, and outside of that haters gonna hate.

What really matters for this game is "when the rubber hits the road."  Aka, what impact do the new graphics and mechanics, and the bundling of the two games, have on people who are actually interested in buying it in the first place.  Universal love would be nice, but it's not something anyone gets.

[Nanashi]

I'm abstaining from commenting on the artwork until the release, but I will say that in my experience, the people who complain the most about artwork don't tend to actually do art themselves and as a result have very little appreciation for it. The internet generation tends to be extremely judgmental and see things in matters of black and white - I blame a culture of entitlement which has promoted the idea of the self as the ultimate judge of absolutes.

Would that they'd judge themselves half as fanatically that they judge others. People used to write in order to compose their thoughts, but these days, it's possible to comment without thinking much in the same way that people often speak without doing so - look at the communal mess that is Twitter.

edit: In response to Chris, the issue isn't so much that "haters hate" but that "haters feel that their opinions are VERY IMPORTANT and everyone needs to know about them". It's easier to crap on everything to devalue it rather than work on improving oneself because godforbid - that might actually take effort.  Few people accept personal responsibility on the internet.

[x4000]

Yep.  I'm not claiming that this is the Best Art Evar, either, by the way.  I think it's really attractive and suits the game well, though, and that's all I'm really looking for.  It fit within our budget (mostly), is worlds better than anything else we've ever been able to do before, and really helps convey the sense of place a lot better than anything we've done in the past with AVWW1.  Winning "Best In Show" for visuals was never on my to-do list.

[Mánagarmr]

It's also quite noticable in the console generation. The majority judge games by their flashiness and if something doesn't look like Crysis 3, it obviously must be garbage. Gameplay is sort of secondary and not something they look very much at. It's part of the "instant gratification" thing.

Funnily enough, I don't think I have a single high graphic game at home at present. Well, okay, Giana Sisters have to count, because it looks absolutely gorgeous, but other than that, the games I play at the moment are Total Annihilation, Masters of Orion 2 and Dwarf Fortress. Not exactly graphical powerhouses, but hard to beat gameplay

[Misery]

It's also quite noticable in the console generation. The majority judge games by their flashiness and if something doesn't look like Crysis 3, it obviously must be garbage. Gameplay is sort of secondary and not something they look very much at. It's part of the "instant gratification" thing.

Funnily enough, I don't think I have a single high graphic game at home at present. Well, okay, Giana Sisters have to count, because it looks absolutely gorgeous, but other than that, the games I play at the moment are Total Annihilation, Masters of Orion 2 and Dwarf Fortress. Not exactly graphical powerhouses, but hard to beat gameplay

Yeah, that's pretty much my thoughts as well.

I remember a time when GAMEPLAY was king, and was the absolute focus of most game development in every genre.  Many of the greatest games of all time owe their existence to that sort of design idea.

Today though?  No.   Graphics and story are at the top of the list, always.   Games..... at least, the big budget ones..... are becoming more like freaking MOVIES than actual games.   Look at something like the linear corridor that is Final Fantasy 13, and compare it to something like FF4 or 6, or even the very first in the series.   Those games were good, but 13 is horrid.   Is part of why I'm mostly a PC gamer now instead of a console gamer.  I dont like movies to begin with, and if I want story, I'll read a book (and I read alot of books).  What I want is an actual GAME.

And if it's not one of those super-high end blockbuster movie-ish experiences, alot of console gamers tend to either ignore it, or bash it, and certainly never TRY it.   Kinda sad, really.