Author Topic: I'm not doing this right, am I?  (Read 1939 times)

Offline rez

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
I'm not doing this right, am I?
« on: February 19, 2012, 11:24:26 am »
So my OCD kicked in pretty decently when I first started the game and I've only ever visited one area away from my starting city.  I just keep going deeper in the caverns.  I only have been able to complete one mission in this area so I've pretty much just been visiting every single building and cavern I can get into.  Reaching 100% visited becomes an obsession.  Finding my way to the bottom is an obsession.  Now I'm finding myself underpowered fighting tier 5 mobs, especially bosses.  This raises a few questions:

- How deep do caverns typically run?  I think I'm into my fourth or fifth "set" in this area.  Boss fights at this point are very hard which I think is a combination of not leveling up my city and not learning new spells.
- Inability to learn new spells is another problem.  I've collected so much stuff throughout these caverns that I'm really surprised that I can't craft a single spell.  I was surprised to see the start guide on this forum saying that after the tutorial you should be able to craft a throw stone spell from jade that you have mined.  Maybe I missed the tutorial gems but I have collected a lot in the area I'm in that it feels odd that I'm not able to craft anything.  I have 4 jades and 114 sapphires when I look at settlement stockpile.
- Would I be better off finishing missions instead of "dungeon diving"?  I've sunk a lot of time into just exploring and fighting.

Sorry if I'm not using the terminology right.  I'm loving the game but I have reached that point where I know that there is a lot more I can be doing in game to make it interesting.

Thanks!

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
Re: I'm not doing this right, am I?
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2012, 11:35:22 am »
So my OCD kicked in pretty decently when I first started the game and I've only ever visited one area away from my starting city.  I just keep going deeper in the caverns.  I only have been able to complete one mission in this area so I've pretty much just been visiting every single building and cavern I can get into.  Reaching 100% visited becomes an obsession.  Finding my way to the bottom is an obsession.  Now I'm finding myself underpowered fighting tier 5 mobs, especially bosses.  This raises a few questions:

This is an infinite world, so exploring 100% is literally impossible -- the more you explore, the more it generates! :)

- How deep do caverns typically run?  I think I'm into my fourth or fifth "set" in this area.  Boss fights at this point are very hard which I think is a combination of not leveling up my city and not learning new spells.

Infinite, most of the time.  They just keep going and going, getting hard and harder, until you can't progress because you die.  Which can be a fun side challenge, but it's really not the point.

- Inability to learn new spells is another problem.  I've collected so much stuff throughout these caverns that I'm really surprised that I can't craft a single spell.  I was surprised to see the start guide on this forum saying that after the tutorial you should be able to craft a throw stone spell from jade that you have mined.  Maybe I missed the tutorial gems but I have collected a lot in the area I'm in that it feels odd that I'm not able to craft anything.  I have 4 jades and 114 sapphires when I look at settlement stockpile.

The guide is actually out of date, we're working on that -- it's out of date by several months, actually.  You can't craft any new spells because you're not doing missions; missions are the only way to progress in the game, or to get new spells.  However, some degree of side exploration is also pretty much required in order for you to be prepared for missions (having enough wood platforms, the right enchants, enough vitality stones, unlocking unlockables, etc).  So side exploration like you've been doing is far from worthless.  It's just not something that I'd spend more than about 20% of my time on, 50% max.  Because there's no way to progress in the game while doing that alone.

- Would I be better off finishing missions instead of "dungeon diving"?  I've sunk a lot of time into just exploring and fighting.

The game is designed so that you'll have to do some of both, but also so that you can come to it with a "what do I feel like doing today" sort of mentality and enjoy whatever it is you're doing then.  But if you've had a long time without doing any missions... yeah, that's going to stagnate your character in a major way.

Kudos to you for getting so far with such pitiful versions of your spells, by the way -- you're going to want to play on a harder difficulty, clearly, because if you can do that then the standard difficulty of the game will be no match for you!

I'm loving the game but I have reached that point where I know that there is a lot more I can be doing in game to make it interesting.

Cheers, thanks for that!  One of our goals last week and this next week has been to make things clearer.  I think we've made some important strides in the last week, but still have a lot to do this next week.  The other big goal is actually making missions themselves more interesting, and having secret missions (that let you do some missions via exploration of the sort you're doing).  Both of those have a bunch of functionality that will be coming out in just the next couple of hours, actually.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline freeformschooler

  • Jr. Member Mark II
  • **
  • Posts: 71
Re: I'm not doing this right, am I?
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2012, 12:07:56 pm »
If I'm understanding the Arcen staff right, over the next few updates your exploration will be rewarded even more with secret missions in caves.

Personally, I love exploring the caves, and am pumped for having more stuff to do in them.

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
Re: I'm not doing this right, am I?
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2012, 12:14:02 pm »
Oh yeah, you'll definitely get rewarded a lot better for the caves with even just today's update.  And several of the new updates also involve exploring caves of various sorts -- one rescue NPC one that I'm finishing up right now, and one stealth assassination one that is already done.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline c4sc4

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 253
Re: I'm not doing this right, am I?
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2012, 12:48:42 pm »
The other big goal is actually making missions themselves more interesting, and having secret missions (that let you do some missions via exploration of the sort you're doing).  Both of those have a bunch of functionality that will be coming out in just the next couple of hours, actually.

Yay!, I've been watching that patch grow and been hoping it would be coming out soon. Working on a weekend, you spoil us.


Anyway, for the OP, yeah exploring 100% of the world is a bad idea. The maps for buildings and caves specifically show you rooms of interest (ie stash rooms and gem veins) so you can go in and get the valuable stuff without exploring every room.

TO craft spells, click (and hold) on the 'Planning' button next to you mana bar and click on the 4th button down titled "Crafting Grimoire." Here you can look and the different spells and it will tell you what materials are needed to craft the spell. If in the Planning menu you click on the "Material Compendium" clicking on the "All Crafting Materials" (The other buttons work too but are just specific subsets of materials) and clicking on the resource you need will tell you where too find it and if it is locked, how to unlock it.

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
Re: I'm not doing this right, am I?
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2012, 02:03:38 pm »
Yay!, I've been watching that patch grow and been hoping it would be coming out soon. Working on a weekend, you spoil us.

Cheers, it's out now!  http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,9887.0.html

And thanks for that -- yeah, Keith had 5 hours yesterday, I had about 9 or 10.  I'm planning the same for today, too.  PAX East sets a certain deadline for 1.0 on us, which means that our next big press push needs to be this next week in order to really maximize visibility at the right time, which means the game has to be in really awesome shape in time for that.  Which has meant that we were really behind there, sigh.  But now we're catching up!

The new version just feels incredibly different to the prior one, to me -- very excited about how that is working out.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Martyn van Buren

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 642
Re: I'm not doing this right, am I?
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2012, 03:00:22 pm »
Back to OP, note that even with the new secret missions in caves only one mission is allowed to spawn in each region per fourteen game-days --- so hanging out in a single cave system will only get you a mission once every three real hours, at best.

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: I'm not doing this right, am I?
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2012, 03:12:37 pm »
Unless it changed since I implemented it, the mission-gen-cooldown on secret missions is chunk-specific, not region-specific.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline KDR_11k

  • Hero Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 904
Re: I'm not doing this right, am I?
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2012, 04:04:08 pm »
The timer shows on all squares of a region.

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
Re: I'm not doing this right, am I?
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2012, 04:06:26 pm »
That timer is mission specific, and is how long it will be before that mission expires.  Or is there a timer for when the next mission can spawn?  If that's the case, it should be varying by chunk, but perhaps it's not.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Martyn van Buren

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 642
Re: I'm not doing this right, am I?
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2012, 09:31:03 pm »
Oh sorry my bad; misread the release notes.