Author Topic: Fix The Anachronisms (Mission)  (Read 4581 times)

Offline Donfish

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Fix The Anachronisms (Mission)
« on: March 27, 2012, 09:52:34 pm »
Is the point of  "Fix The Anachronisms" not to accidentally  blow away the wrong mob or to memorize what mobs happen to be in the area of the mission? Invariably I end up killing something wrong and lose the mission because I didn't remember if the red amoeba or blue whateveryoucallit belongs to that time line or another. How can you tell without keeping a list which mobs to kill and which to leave alone?

Offline Castruccio

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Re: Fix The Anachronisms (Mission)
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2012, 09:55:48 pm »
I agree that this is a hard mission for newcomers.  The player simply hasn't spent enough time in the various regions to know what belongs in each one by the time he unlocks it, and it isn't always intuitive.  Perhaps this type of mission should be unlocked later than it currently is? 

Offline Donfish

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Re: Fix The Anachronisms (Mission)
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2012, 10:09:27 pm »
Or maybe make the map icons a different color for the anachronisms or put info in the hover.

If in fact the point is memorization then it works the way it is but if it's not to accidentally kill the wrong mob from overshoot or swarming then there should be a way to tell what mobs you need to kill  or let live IMO.

Offline x4000

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Re: Fix The Anachronisms (Mission)
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2012, 10:22:27 pm »
It's a puzzle: you can use memorization, sure, but you can also use deduction.  Typically there are far more enemies that belong in a given time period than those that are anachronisms.  If you pick a mission in an easy time period -- say, in the ice age -- then you'll be able to eliminate most stuff that isn't robots or icicle leapers.  If you pick something from anywhere other than the ice age or junkyards, you can quickly eliminate the skelebots that you find.  Etc.

Once you've gotten it close, then you can use simple math to figure out the stragglers.  That's the deduction part.  If there are 10 lightning espers in the room, and there are 2 things left you have to kill, you know to leave the lightning espers alone.  The odds of what is in there (and the fact that it tells you how much is remaining) make it so that this is a puzzle that is solvable with only partial information, rather than requiring complete knowledge of what does and does not belong in a given time period.

Further, since you're able to retry it if you fail, if you accidentally blow away an amoeba in a time period that does have amoebas (which many don't), then that's just made your next run that much easier.  You don't have to do that with every enemy type, or shouldn't, but you've just picked up another valuable clue in your process of deduction.

Showing you the answer with color-coding would just make this an action challenge.  It's a puzzle.  More to the point, it's not even my idea, it was suggested by players and I just liked the idea.  So I don't even really get to take pride of ownership, which is helpful for judging comments against the specific mission.  And helps me say: if you don't like puzzles, you won't like this mission type.  Just ignore it.  Like if you don't like twitch combat, you won't like journey to perfection.  Just ignore that one.  If you don't like platforming, you won't like lava escape.  Just ignore that one.

The goal isn't for every player to like every time of mission equally well, but each type of mission brings out unique things about the game.  The cool thing is that you get to pick and choose what you feel like doing; and missions expire, too.  So if the random generator just rolls a lot of stuff you don't like, that's cool: there's lots of side things to work on, and ultimately plenty of mission types to go around.  We're adding more all the time, and aim to put them into a variety of categories and gameplay styles, all based around the core mechanics of the game.

At any rate, TLDR: if you don't like puzzles, you won't like this mission.  But making it no longer a puzzle isn't the answer, since the point is that it's a puzzle.  It's not a memory match game, but having clues does tend to help one in deduction.

Hope that makes sense!  And as always, feel free to submit your own mission types, too.  There's always the chance that there's something that you'll find awesome, that I'll think is great, and that we'll implement and someone else will come complain about.  I think that's inevitable with the sort of variety that we're trying to put on offer here, but I also think that's ultimately going to be a strength of the game, especially as the amount of content continues to grow.
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Offline Nypyren

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Re: Fix The Anachronisms (Mission)
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2012, 10:44:02 pm »
Are any of the espers actually associated with a time period?  I always a variety of them everywhere.

So, if my guess is correct and they are not associated with a particular time, is it OK to kill them, or do you have to leave them alone no matter what?

Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: Fix The Anachronisms (Mission)
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2012, 11:18:20 pm »
since you're able to retry it if you fail

You are? I had no idea. Do you just exit the room and go back in?

Offline Professor Paul1290

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Re: Fix The Anachronisms (Mission)
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2012, 12:21:45 am »
Theoretically you could do it entirely by math.

You could count how many of each type of enemy and figure which enemy types, when added together, add up to the number of anachronisms.

I haven't actually done one entirely that way, but I see no reason why it wouldn't work. Of course, it would arguably take more time and skill than it would to solve in the more intended way (which also means you can't call it an exploit I guess).  ;D

Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Fix The Anachronisms (Mission)
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2012, 07:21:31 am »
My easiest anachronism was in the lava flats, the only native creature there seems to be the Utahraptor and none of those spawned in the mission.

Offline Donfish

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Re: Fix The Anachronisms (Mission)
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2012, 07:57:38 am »
I had no idea you can  redo the mission either. I'd swear the mission thing said "No mission available" after I left the room.
I'll have better look at that next time.

Most of the times I end up failing on something that is in multiple areas like the clockworks, one of the little blue balls or skelebot snipers.

Offline x4000

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Re: Fix The Anachronisms (Mission)
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2012, 09:24:59 am »
The espers are from many time periods at the moment, but not all of them; they're definitely one of the trickier ones.  The question isn't whether they only come from ONE time period, though, but whether or not they are natively found in your current time period.  If you are in, say, the ice age, then kill them.  If you're in industrial revoluion, preindustrial, time of magic, brozne age, or a variety of others, don't kill them.  Etc.

If this is a secret mission, then yes you can't retry -- if it's a world map one you can.  Sorry for the confusion there.

Some time periods are indeed easier than others.  The lava flats also has fire bats and... yeah, not a lot else at the moment.

The clockwork probes, incidentally, only ever come from one time period: the industrial revolution.  Amoebas and espers and bats are the main ones that come from a variety of time periods.
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Offline tigersfan

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Re: Fix The Anachronisms (Mission)
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2012, 10:05:09 am »
If this is a secret mission, then yes you can't retry -- if it's a world map one you can.  Sorry for the confusion there.

I just tried to restart one of these and it disappeared on me. You might want to look that over again. It might be an MP issue, I'll see if it works in SP.

Offline x4000

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Re: Fix The Anachronisms (Mission)
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2012, 10:08:35 am »
If this is a secret mission, then yes you can't retry -- if it's a world map one you can.  Sorry for the confusion there.

I just tried to restart one of these and it disappeared on me. You might want to look that over again. It might be an MP issue, I'll see if it works in SP.

On the world map it did this?
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Offline tigersfan

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Re: Fix The Anachronisms (Mission)
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2012, 10:17:48 am »
Yep. It came about via the "Seek Resources" Guardian scroll, but yeah, it was on the map.

Offline x4000

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Re: Fix The Anachronisms (Mission)
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2012, 02:45:13 pm »
Yep. It came about via the "Seek Resources" Guardian scroll, but yeah, it was on the map.

Those are one-shot missions, then.  It's only those actual "original world map missions" that are re-attemptable.  There's actually three categories of mission:

1. Secret (one chance only, interval in between).
2. World map (as many chances as you want, new one appears somewhere else as soon as you win it or as soon as it expires).
3. Guardian power spawned (one chance only, disappears for good if you abandon or fail for whatever reasons).

Missions ARE saved to disk, but when you exit a mission the mission gets completely wiped.  So in case #2 above, when you're exiting a mission it's clearing it, and then when you go back in it's generating a new mission of the same type, but with different random seeds.  Mission areas just aren't kept beyond the duration of your stay in the mission area itself.
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Offline Panopticon

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Re: Fix The Anachronisms (Mission)
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2012, 05:08:58 pm »
The toughest thing about these missions is that I'd already gotten to Tier 4 by the time they were introduced. The drift that goes with it means I've been playing for a while with monsters that don't belong all over the place as a normal factor in exploration. So trying to figure out which doesn't belong comes down to trial and error. Since one error is a Mission Over it was feeling way to punishing. I was about to give up on the mission type entirely until I came here and read that you can retry them. That makes all the difference now, and I'll be spending more time on these.