Author Topic: Final things needed for adventure side of the game.  (Read 3228 times)

Offline tigersfan

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Final things needed for adventure side of the game.
« on: February 11, 2013, 01:11:09 pm »
Ok, we have threads for spell balance, monster balance, the strategy game... we need one more. What are the most essential things we need to make the side-scrolling adventure part of the game better?

I'm not really looking for balance type stuff in here, please try to leave that for the other threads. So, what do you guys think? What are the most important polish things we can do?

Offline madcow

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Re: Final things needed for adventure side of the game.
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2013, 01:32:14 pm »
Is character animation on the table at all?  I find the jumping animations specifically to be awkward.

Offline Billick

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Re: Final things needed for adventure side of the game.
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2013, 01:47:58 pm »
Is character animation on the table at all?  I find the jumping animations specifically to be awkward.
It's probably way too late for this, but I really miss the Contra/Metroid style gratuitous flips in the jumping animation that the first game had.

Offline Mick

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Re: Final things needed for adventure side of the game.
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2013, 01:54:52 pm »
Chests should stand out a little more. Right now they just look like any other background object, when the reaction to running by one should really be "ooo shiny!"

They should sparkle or have some type of pulsing glow.

Offline tigersfan

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Re: Final things needed for adventure side of the game.
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2013, 02:12:01 pm »
Is character animation on the table at all?  I find the jumping animations specifically to be awkward.
It's probably way too late for this, but I really miss the Contra/Metroid style gratuitous flips in the jumping animation that the first game had.

Yeah, animation changes aren't possible at this point. There'd be WAAAY too much work involved for that now.

Offline MouldyK

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Re: Final things needed for adventure side of the game.
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2013, 03:16:09 pm »
Is character animation on the table at all?  I find the jumping animations specifically to be awkward.
It's probably way too late for this, but I really miss the Contra/Metroid style gratuitous flips in the jumping animation that the first game had.

Yeah, animation changes aren't possible at this point. There'd be WAAAY too much work involved for that now.

But in the future, more flips plz!

Offline InfinityX

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Re: Final things needed for adventure side of the game.
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2013, 06:51:48 pm »
  How about more multiplayer events? right now it feels like having a Co-op (or many partners for that matter) is more of a hassle. It feels like the only reason to have other players is get perk tokens, because there is no reward for having 2+ people in a map. sure it makes the monsters harder, but why do that when you get the same results, if not faster, by yourself? I can go into the strategic parts on another thread, but in terms of adventure, it would be great if there was a way to reward teaming up.
  Maybe A chest by the windstorm generator that has better rewards based on the amount of players? or (though I know this would break the game, but I'm going to put this out there:) more players purifying a tile increases the size purified? It would create a risk-reward where the monsters would get much harder with a higher chance of a player dying, but allowing for more tiles to work with after, giving more of a reason to team up.

Offline sojourner

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Re: Final things needed for adventure side of the game.
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2013, 01:09:48 am »
I like that you're no longer required to slog through 5 buildings anytime you want to get through a building tile, but I think the recent changes have gone too far and made buildings a bit superflous. Maybe give the affected regions a small chance of having 1 or 2 required buildings instead of none all the time.  Also, including a chance of a mercenary coin in the side buildings would greatly increase the incentive to actually enter them, which I rarely if ever do currently.

Offline Misery

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Re: Final things needed for adventure side of the game.
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2013, 04:16:11 am »
I like that you're no longer required to slog through 5 buildings anytime you want to get through a building tile, but I think the recent changes have gone too far and made buildings a bit superflous. Maybe give the affected regions a small chance of having 1 or 2 required buildings instead of none all the time.  Also, including a chance of a mercenary coin in the side buildings would greatly increase the incentive to actually enter them, which I rarely if ever do currently.


They still do produce buildings that you have to pass through every now and then, it's just not very often.

I agree on the coin idea though;  those things have next to no presence when the only way to get them is from bosses.   Though, that could lead to exploits, possibly.

Offline Misery

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Re: Final things needed for adventure side of the game.
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2013, 04:12:49 am »
Research facilities:   These are still an absolute mess.

I still think that the spawning mechanic simply doesnt work.   There's way, way too many enemies in the game that need a careful approach to defeat.   You can die here ENTIRELY because of what the RNG does, and there's little you can do about it.   Run & gun just does not work in this game, and you cant simply avoid everything either.

Heck, I cant remember the last time I cleared one of these WITHOUT just dropping the difficulty to nothing.   I'll usually TRY them a couple of times on Hero, but literally every single one, I end up just dropping it and essentially skipping them, because there's no other solution.

Currently, I see these as pretty much THE screwed up part of the game.   The fact that their danger level is often super-dramatically higher than..... everywhere else, also doesnt help.   But even without that, these would still often be utterly unbeatable.


In the one I just did, I exited the hacking room to instantly run into 3 of those robot fish, 2 of the super-long-range spider crawlers, 2 scouts, a floating thing with rockets, and those rolling guys with the splitting shots from the abandoned towns.   There was no quick way past here without getting hit by EVERYTHING, but I cant do it carefully because that spinning whatsit keeps farting more monsters at me.


Another one occurs to me:   Level-up towers, I'd say, stop these from randomizing the enemy selection.   Leads to ALOT of frustration.  In pretty much any other area of the game, when you run into a nasty situation, you can leave the area, and switch mage classes and perks in order to deal with it.   But not in these.   When you go back.... chances are all of the monsters are different.  Preparations simply dont matter in these.

Certain types of monsters should also probably be disallowed here, particularly melee-only types.  (EDIT:  Or not.  It took me awhile to notice just how the melee stuff was working now.  A good change!  Though I still think certain monsters probably shouldnt appear here.)

EDIT 2:  Also, having areas reset when you re-enter them, instead of having every monster be exactly where it was, would be a good idea.   Some areas can become completely unbeatable if you screw up in a certain way, meaning that the only way to deal with it is to restart the game, or even delete the file containing that particular tile so it regenerates.   Had this one happen just now.... blasted seeker spell, instead of targeting any of the 4 enemies that were somewhat near me, targeted the thing that was furthest away, which was one of those horrible imp blobs, whatever they're called.  So now there's 4 of those horrible things just sitting on the entrance to that surface area. 
« Last Edit: February 14, 2013, 07:39:53 am by Misery »

Offline Oralordos

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Re: Final things needed for adventure side of the game.
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2013, 09:51:50 am »
I've never really had much trouble with the Robotic Research Facilities. In fact, that includes back when they were first in the game and everyone thought they were the hardest thing ever. I play on default difficulty.

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: Final things needed for adventure side of the game.
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2013, 10:04:08 am »
I also don't have that much trouble playing on the default difficulty, although I used to find it a lot harder before the recent changes. I was also watching a pretty new lets player the other day and he made it in and out OK. Maybe this just affects the higher difficulties.

Offline Misery

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Re: Final things needed for adventure side of the game.
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2013, 10:09:39 am »
I've never really had much trouble with the Robotic Research Facilities. In fact, that includes back when they were first in the game and everyone thought they were the hardest thing ever. I play on default difficulty.


Some of it, I think, is the scaling.   It can be a bit quirky at times, overall, in the exact way that various things scale as the difficulty increases.

I suspect that I might find these doable on Adept, but...... still, the situation I explained above would have required alot of very careful fighting even on Adept.   On Hero, which is what I'm always on, my guy just melts if I try to do things quickly.  Just cannot get by the massive blob of monsters fast enough to be able to handle the ones that keep spawning on me.  On top of this, even if I did get past, there's a good number of enemies in there that can either chase me, or hit from a super long range (like the spiders), or stuff like that, AND enemies spawning on me all the while.


I like the idea of having an "escape" sequence, but the current implementation is very wonky at best, and extremely subject to the RNG, particularly when the difficulty goes up.

The facility tile itself doesnt help either.... 400% danger level?!?  And that's AFTER I smashed some of the surrounding evil wall things.   Lowering the danger level of these though still wouldnt solve the problem of having to move too fast to actually avoid damage.


I do think that these places should be pretty difficult.... but right now, they're the wrong KIND of difficult.

Offline Nanashi

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Re: Final things needed for adventure side of the game.
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2013, 10:22:43 am »
Well, you still have to seed non-henchman merc coins. If using them takes 100 of them, you'd need to kill at least 7 henchmen to get that amount right now, which means you'll see the option throughout the course of the game twice at the very most, and usually at the point in the game where there's not much to purify left.

If I had my way about the game, I'd change valley 2's class system to work like rockman/megaman and enable switching classes midsegment, because that would add variety to gameplay instead of the current syndrome where I just pick an arbitrary "best" class and stick with it until the next tier. It also removes the annoyance of having to backtrack to the world map if your current loadout really is terrible for a specific situation (Apothekinecist on freefall segments).

If people complained about whatever degenerate thing you could do with this option (and it wouldn't really be particularly degenerate IMO), I'd just slap an ammo cost or cooldown on it or whatever.

Offline Mick

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Re: Final things needed for adventure side of the game.
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2013, 10:28:12 am »
If I had my way about the game, I'd change valley 2's class system to work like rockman/megaman and enable switching classes midsegment, because that would add variety to gameplay instead of the current syndrome where I just pick an arbitrary "best" class and stick with it until the next tier. It also removes the annoyance of having to backtrack to the world map if your current loadout really is terrible for a specific situation (Apothekinecist on freefall segments).

If people complained about whatever degenerate thing you could do with this option (and it wouldn't really be particularly degenerate IMO), I'd just slap an ammo cost or cooldown on it or whatever.

This would make me much more likely to try out different classes. I pretty much just choose the most straightforward one I have available and never change it.

If you want a balancing mechanism, maybe just lose a full heart worth of health every time you swap.