[FILLED] Looking for artist(s) to develop new style for A Valley Without Wind.

[tigersfan]

Make no mistake, I'm no businessman so these lollipops and rainbows are emanating straight from my hindquarters -- I'm just a consumer who really wants to see more AVWW and thinks this game could pick up some steam (no pun intended, I swear) with some more publicity / public awareness.

While I don't disagree that more visibility/knowledge about the game would be extremely helpful, I also want to make it abundantly clear that any lack of publicity the game has is not due to lack of trying. Erik is working his A$$ off trying to get the word out to folks.

[goodgimp]

Oh damn I hope I didn't come across sounding like you guys weren't doing due diligence on the publicity front. I was speaking of the press/public's reticence to pay much attention to "just a patch", not understanding that 1.1/1.2 were much more than that.

[x4000]

Yep, I've spent about 10 hours on the phone this week talking with the rest of the staff about just those sorts of issues. 

I even had the wild-hair idea of saying that we were completely "stopping support" for AVWW, and then introducing the sequel "A Valley Without Wind II," which would by the way be free to all existing customers.  But there's no guarantee that Steam would take a new game like that, there's a lot of logistical challenges that could hang that up, and that could have a really negative public backlash as it's a fairly transparent ploy.  We'd be erasing the Metacritic record and asking grumpy reviewers to look at the sequel, which is prettier plus so vastly different because of all the changes in 1.1 and 1.2.  But ultimately we decided that route was too duplicitous and not something we were comfortable with.

In the end, what we're banking on is that this third project will be more exciting than an expansion to AVWW to the press, really.  And I think that will be true.  I think it will be a way to bring yet a new set of players in, and the interests of those players will likely strongly overlap between that project and AVWW.  So hopefully there then exists some opportunities for cross-selling AND for getting the press to talk about us in light of the fact that not only do we have a new expansion for AI War, not only do we have an all-new game that is exciting, but the art and gameplay is hugely revamped for AVWW.

And beyond that it's "just" a matter of making sure the new game gets onto Steam, and that ideally AI War, AVWW, and the new game get good placement in the various holiday sales that tend to exist and drive so much income.  That's our lowest-risk way of proceeding, we decided, and that will let us then get back to doing other major enhancements for AVWW beyond just the art if all goes well.

Though frankly with a spell a week for the next three months, the volume of spells in the game is going to increase by about 50% by the time this art project is done, so it's not exactly an idle period.   It's just a different focus from what we might have had.

[Stx11]

Hmm... are you sure Torchlight 2 is slated for next June?
http://www.neoseeker.com/news/19916-torchlight-2-devs-runic-games-still-hard-at-it-start-blog-to-provide-status-updates/
(Says they are on target for an EoY 2012 Release)

I'd hate to see history repeat itself for you guys 

I know I'm the totally new (noob?) guy around here but I see AVWW akin to a potentially fine mead... just after first casking. There's a lot of potential for it to become much greater than the sum of its parts. I really want to see it get that chance, but I'm willing to wait even years for that if that's what it takes for it to be "done right" both from the standpoint of you guys being able to craft it to where you want but also what makes the most financial sense for your company.

Don't forget I'm speaking as someone who a few months ago had no idea you guys existed and now have 3 (well maybe 2.5  ) amazing games from you and am really excited about both the AIW expansion and hearing more about the new title 

[Stx11]

Oh and sorry for the double post...

But have you guys considered something more like "AVWW Reloaded" or "Special Edition" instead of 2.0?

The changes in 1.1 and 1.2 are truly substantial, and the Art Revamp is... well kinda literally... a re-imaging of the game.

It deserves to have Metacritic reset and reviews treat it as a new release.
(well at least I think so  )

[x4000]

Hmm... are you sure Torchlight 2 is slated for next June?
http://www.neoseeker.com/news/19916-torchlight-2-devs-runic-games-still-hard-at-it-start-blog-to-provide-status-updates/
(Says they are on target for an EoY 2012 Release)

I'd hate to see history repeat itself for you guys 

In that case that's yet another reason for us not to do an AVWW expansion anytime soon.  Let Torchlight II have the new release spotlight on the holiday season (which they will anyway, it's not like we'd be able to compete with them), and meanwhile both AI War and our third project are unlikely to be as directly contending with Torchlight at all.  Which is another reason for the third project: not having all our eggs in one basked is a really nice thing.  Or two baskets as the case may be.  Meanwhile, if we can get the press talking about us at all, hopefully they'll talk about all three of our active efforts.  And either way, if we get in Steam sales with new art over the holidays, that's really going to drive dollars regardless of if the press ignores us or not.

Anyhow, then by the time Q1 rolls around we're better positioned to do whatever makes the most sense -- hopefully the first expansion to AVWW, with an expanded fanbase from the holidays and not such stiff competition in the direct market as Torchlight II.

I know I'm the totally new (noob?) guy around here but I see AVWW akin to a potentially fine mead... just after first casking. There's a lot of potential for it to become much greater than the sum of its parts. I really want to see it get that chance, but I'm willing to wait even years for that if that's what it takes for it to be "done right" both from the standpoint of you guys being able to craft it to where you want but also what makes the most financial sense for your company.

Don't forget I'm speaking as someone who a few months ago had no idea you guys existed and now have 3 (well maybe 2.5  ) amazing games from you and am really excited about both the AIW expansion and hearing more about the new title 

I really appreciate that!  And yeah, we're in no way "giving up" on the title.  But this year is a contentious one in this particular market, and we've had to make certain hard choices in order to ensure that we get a chance to continue doing what we want to do in the years to come.  I fully intend to be doing this 30 years from now if possible, and so I try not to let short-term setbacks get in the way of the larger picture.  I am simultaneously a very impatient and patient guy.

[goodgimp]

Maybe a rebranding to A Valley Without Wind: Battleface Duty Warfare. I'll bet Arcen'll get tons of press coverage that way.

[x4000]

But have you guys considered something more like "AVWW Reloaded" or "Special Edition" instead of 2.0?

The changes in 1.1 and 1.2 are truly substantial, and the Art Revamp is... well kinda literally... a re-imaging of the game.

It deserves to have Metacritic reset and reviews treat it as a new release.
(well at least I think so  )

Possibly.  First we have to get there, and then that sort of thing will be more clear.  Once we are finishing up the new art style and nearing release of that, we'll be able to talk to the players, our staff, Valve, other indies, and see what makes sense.  For now it's just a matter of getting the art done and getting the other two projects also done as sort of a hedge (and because they are also awesome and we totally owe the AI War folks an exciting expansion after all their patient waiting these last 18 months).

There's also a good chance that the kickstarter for the art itself will drive some press about this game, since the press that have been ignoring 1.1 and 1.2 were often heavily criticizing the art.  As we do press releases about the art, we're always going to be reinforcing that with everything else that changes, so that hopefully even if the kickstarter fails it becomes a vehicle for getting the word out about the other changes the game has seen.  We shall see.

[madcow]

Plus who knows, there's always the chance that a kickstarter will succeed so awesomely that there's cash left over to throw back into AVWW after the art revamp! Just remember to do enough KS updates along the way, or it comes off as not being interested in the project - even though this type of project is fairly self explanatory.

Is there any idea of a timeframe for when you're shooting to start the KS project?

[x4000]

Plus who knows, there's always the chance that a kickstarter will succeed so awesomely that there's cash left over to throw back into AVWW after the art revamp! Just remember to do enough KS updates along the way, or it comes off as not being interested in the project - even though this type of project is fairly self explanatory.

Yep, we plan to do lots of intermediary updates.  We'll be partially funding the art revamp ourselves anyhow, so work will have started on the revamp before the kickstarter even begins.  That means that we have awesome fodder for the kickstarter updates, as we can show literally how the game art is evolving and improving and what the kickstarter would be furthering.

And if things are taking off, then we can set some stretch goals that involve not just AVWW art but also gameplay (likely deliverable in Q1 of next year on that part of it just because of workload between now and then, but we'll see).

Still, it's my job to be pessimistic, and I already am being somewhat optimistic that we can even get the kickstarter funded in general.  I think that it is imminently doable for a company with a fanbase as large as ours, and with coverage that we can often get on places like RPS and hopefully Kotaku and Polygon again, but still nothing is ever a sure thing until it happens.

Is there any idea of a timeframe for when you're shooting to start the KS project?

The single biggest factor there is really just nailing down the actual art style and getting a working prototype to a point where we can show that off to kickstarter folks and make that exciting for them.  Erik is also working on lots of ideas for the kickstarter itself (he has run a successful small kickstarter in the past: www.kickstarter.com/projects/689802380/blokes-a-comedy-series), and will likely be soliciting feedback and ideas from the forums next week while I am on vacation.

So, realistically, I think we're looking at mid-August for the kickstarter to start, and early August for work on the actual art revamp to begin (a certain amount of that has to be done before we want to kickstart the rest, so that we can show what it looks like).

[x4000]

By the way: as one indicator of just how important this art topic is, it's now the #2 most-posted-in topic that these here forums have ever had.  And it's rapidly closing in on the #1 slot, which was a general Q&A thread about AVWW early into beta where people just dumped whatever they wanted to know.

So... yeah.  A lot of people really seem to care about the art, and I think that's a pretty clear reinforcer that we're on the right path with investing our time and money into this before we continue on with what we'd planned to do with 1.3.

And then of course to hedge in case that doesn't work as hoped, there's the other two projects so that we aren't dead in the water over the critical holiday period no matter what happens.

[zebramatt]

Of course, 20%* of the posts in this thread are about how a Kickstarter won't work, art isn't the problem, time is better spent elsewhere, the market wasn't ready, the game wasn't ready, it's all going to fail, isn't life horribly pointless and futile, we might as well just all go and stick our heads in a bucket of water so God can't have the satisfaction of seeing our tears...




*Not scientifically derived

[nanostrike]

Well, I don't think that free DLC as a literal DLC thing is something that Steam does.  To my recollection.  And it's kind of important to make sure that everyone gets the art, not just some of the players, because otherwise as we expand the game we have to maintain two art styles.  Not to mention that the new one then hopefully looks much better than the old and we want everyone to have that.

Actually, I specifically remember them doing that for Terraria.  They had a front-page post about their big "1.2 Update", with the blurb "Featuring new enemies, items, and environments!"  So I'd guess something for a major update from you guys wouldn't be impossible.

[Mánagarmr]

We do care. A lot. Not only would new art be awesome, but we WANT this game to explode and be the awesomest EVAH!

[Ulrox]

In the end, what we're banking on is that this third project will be more exciting than an expansion to AVWW to the press, really.  And I think that will be true.  I think it will be a way to bring yet a new set of players in, and the interests of those players will likely strongly overlap between that project and AVWW.  So hopefully there then exists some opportunities for cross-selling AND for getting the press to talk about us in light of the fact that not only do we have a new expansion for AI War, not only do we have an all-new game that is exciting, but the art and gameplay is hugely revamped for AVWW.

Does it have coop?

I'm going to pledge 50 dollars to your art kickstarter when it comes up ^^