[FILLED] Looking for artist(s) to develop new style for A Valley Without Wind.

[eRe4s3r]

Whoa, when did animu become such a dirty word??

It's been a derogatory mocking of Anime fans for as long as I can remember.

[Brise Bonbons]

Even in anime, there's a diverse array of art styles that creators use, so it's not really all the same. Between two different series like say, Cowboy Bebop and One Piece, you have two completely different types of art styles, yet each of them fits their respective settings and overall themes....

This is an extremely good point. My problem with a lot of modern cartooning work (inside or outside Japan) is that it feels like the style has been lifted whole or borrowed by the artist, and is not an organic outgrowth of the their artistic (most commonly anatomy) studies and the needs of the project. Now, that is beyond the scope of the current discussion, and I don't think this critique applies to any of the art on display in this thread. The point being, any designed art style for a game has to serve the project before the artist, on some level.

There is also a simple question of artistic mastery. Artists like Amano and Miyazaki (of FF6 and Nausicaa respectively) are so flexible and brilliant that they can bend their styles to suit the project at hand. But there are very few people who can do that.

For AVWW, I think the question becomes "do we try to preserve the realistic proportions and scale of the current art, or can the game's tone adjust and mesh with a more exaggerated and "cartoony" look?" Personally I'm fond of the naturalistic art style in the game, I find it refreshing when so many platformers these days rush to adopt exaggerated retro styles. But I don't think there's necessarily anything about the game mechanics that would clash or seem out of place if the art style was more Japanese in flavor.

So while I might personally prefer that AVWW's art be remade with sprites that evoke Secret of Monkey Island rather than Metroid, I think the number of artists working in that style today is pretty damn small. The guy who did the art for the Sword and Sworcery EP, maybe? That one 2d adventure studio from Germany?

[SerratedSabre]

For AVWW, I think the question becomes "do we try to preserve the realistic proportions and scale of the current art, or can the game's tone adjust and mesh with a more exaggerated and "cartoony" look?" Personally I'm fond of the naturalistic art style in the game, I find it refreshing when so many platformers these days rush to adopt exaggerated retro styles. But I don't think there's necessarily anything about the game mechanics that would clash or seem out of place if the art style was more Japanese in flavor.

Personally, I think that the current art, while rough around the edges, captures the theme of the game pretty well. That theme is the post-cataclyism world, the lonely exploration of the now empty civilizations, and the Overlord and his minions that you fight against for control of the land. The music helps too, as it's pretty catchy and cool, and fits what area you're in or what event you're doing.

I think to make it have more appeal, the art style would need to be smoothed out in some way. However, I'm not an artist, so I haven't a clue as which direction to go either. 

[zebramatt]

Whoa, when did animu become such a dirty word??

It's been a derogatory mocking of Anime fans for as long as I can remember.

Yeah but in the same way that "Yank", "Limey" or "Frog" are derogatory; not in the way racial slurs are derogatory!

[x4000]

Interesting.  As an American I don't mind the term "Yank," but for the other two I'd lump those as closer to racial slurs.

[Tobias]

It's just cel shading, it's easier to animate that way because it takes less time to draw.

Details are hell though - I started with this idle pose which I need to redo because animating it gave me a headache.



Glad you liked it. Till next time! (busy this week)

Just pitching in that I really don't like this. It seems way too bright and cartoonish, much prefer the gritty and sharp look the current textures have. Just don't forget the game is set in a post apocalyptic wasteland, please.

[Nanashi]

Mr Tobias, I think you missed a point I was repeatedly trying to make.

I don't mod to please you, I mod the game to please myself. This is the basis of modding! I'm not a professional artist, and nobody is ever going to be satisfied with one particular art style, so if you ever want an art style you'll be perfectly happy with, you have to create it yourself.

Criticizing it is perfectly fine (I have thick skin for my own work and I find criticism useful), but don't expect me to take your advice too seriously unless I know and respect you as having a keen aesthetic sense which I resonate with. That bit is important. (My art style for AVWW modding is a slow gestalt overhaul. Obviously it'd look out of place if inserted ceteris paribus.)

If you don't like it, that's perfectly alright! I don't even release most of my stuff for that very reason since I know it's a deeply personal experience. -_-

[Misery]

Mr Tobias, I think you missed a point I was repeatedly trying to make.

I don't mod to please you, I mod the game to please myself. This is the basis of modding! I'm not a professional artist, and nobody is ever going to be satisfied with one particular art style, so if you ever want an art style you'll be perfectly happy with, you have to create it yourself.

Criticizing it is perfectly fine (I have thick skin for my own work and I find criticism useful), but don't expect me to take your advice too seriously unless I know and respect you as having a keen aesthetic sense which I resonate with. That bit is important. (My art style for AVWW modding is a slow gestalt overhaul. Obviously it'd look out of place if inserted ceteris paribus.)

If you don't like it, that's perfectly alright! I don't even release most of my stuff for that very reason since I know it's a deeply personal experience. -_-

Ah, but making art for a game like this is a little different.  You do have to, at least somewhat, be making it appealing for the players that MIGHT BUY THE GAME.  It's already been proven that the art (much as *I* like it) the game already has can shoo away some players entirely.

This topic isnt really about modding (which is ENTIRELY different and something I'm familiar with), it's about an actual, OFFICIAL batch of art to be used in the game.

That type of feedback and whatever does need to be considered for something like this that can actually affect sales and whatnot.

[Nanashi]

@Misery: I believe I already said exactly that two pages ago. I never claimed to be interested in producing official art to please everyone and the only reason I've been working on this at all is as a token of my appreciation. Did you read what I wrote before you started lecturing from your soapbox?

The person in particular I was replying to was making a comment about my art, which is a mod made primarily to suit myself and not you nor the public. My reply to his comment is therefore about the mod, and not about the official art candidates, which I have defended for exactly that reason. What's your point?

[jonasan]

really like you art style nanashi... would love to see a cel-shaded valley something along the lines of your approach!

[Misery]

@Misery: I believe I already said exactly that two pages ago. I never claimed to be interested in producing official art to please everyone and the only reason I've been working on this at all is as a token of my appreciation. Did you read what I wrote before you started lecturing from your soapbox?

The person in particular I was replying to was making a comment about my art, which is a mod made primarily to suit myself and not you nor the public. My reply to his comment is therefore about the mod, and not about the official art candidates, which I have defended for exactly that reason. What's your point?

.....excuse me?    Might wanna think about rephrasing that.   "Lecturing from a soapbox".... good grief.

It was a simple comment, no more.  If you blow things out of proportion like that, that's a whole OTHER issue.   There's no call for rudeness here.  This forum has avoided that pretty darn well so far.


Perhaps I didn't phrase things right (or lost track of what I was saying halfway through, which is more likely.  It happens OFTEN).   Comments about the art in here is not necessarily going to AT ALL take into account whatever your intentions for the particular art may be.   It's a topic about official art.... you're likely to get comments from those who assume that is what yours is for.   I am guessing that that's what Tobias did, and that's probably all his comment was.

My point is, dont jump at people for doing exactly that.   I for one know little about art (or I should say, I know little about how to actually DRAW it), and though I'll happily comment on it, I dont care to read 15 pages of it.   I'll pop into this topic every now and then to quickly glance and see what's going on with it (since I'm interested at least as a sense of sheer curiosity), but no, I'm not going to read EVERY post on every page.  It wouldnt matter if I did anyway:  My memory is TERRIBLE.   I'd have forgotten half of what I read (or more than half) by the time I go to respond.   I'm absent-minded;  I'm GOING to make posts like that sometimes, and they have no particular meaning towards anyone (and I'm also going to repeat myself fairly often due to this, or go off on a tangent randomly).   I made the same assumption upon seeing that art, that it's an idea for what the official art could be.  Combining that with your comment at Tobias resulted in my response.   Nothing more.   Believe me, if I was "lecturing", you'd know it, due to the fact that it'd be 5 pages long.


As it is I dont actually really have an opinion yet myself on the actual art (yours OR otherwise).   I'd need to see ALOT more before I comment on any of it.   But it's at least vaguely interesting to see where it's currently headed, and I tend to have alot of respect for artists in general, as I cannot draw worth a damn.    Unless you need a picture of something that resembles a cat's hairball gone horribly wrong:   THAT I can probably produce.

[Wanderer]

The person in particular I was replying to was making a comment about my art, which is a mod made primarily to suit myself and not you nor the public. My reply to his comment is therefore about the mod, and not about the official art candidates, which I have defended for exactly that reason. What's your point?

Considering this is an official art thread, you're in the wrong place for that particular discussion, as Misery longwindedly said above.  Anything that goes by is assumed to be a piece of production art and nothing stops a 'quick scan of the topic' as much as a randomly huge animated piece smack in the middle of the textwall.

This thread is huge and only going to get longer.  A 4 page discussion on modding really doesn't need to happen in the middle of the official artwork thread.  It's going to derail enough as is.

I personally like your work Nanashi.  Animation needs a bit of a touch up but that's just some time.  I'd love to see you post a link to another thread discussing your mod work and what, if any, you're willing to release as texture packs for others to use.   There's a subforum just for that.

So, moving off of that tangent... Chris, any chance you have samples from the other studio yet?  You mentioned you had 3 studios who were proposing artwork, and, unless I missed it in the last few pages, you've only had the opportunity to post two of them.  Or did I miss something?

[zebramatt]

Interesting.  As an American I don't mind the term "Yank," but for the other two I'd lump those as closer to racial slurs.

I can tell you as a Brit, we don't give a rat's derrière what anyone calls us. Somewhat humorously, the Frogs sometimes call us English "Rosbif" because, you know, eating roast beef is obviously pretty weird!    (Incidentally, I quite like frogs' legs although it's an awful lot of trouble to go to for such a small quantity of meet per animal - but hey, c'est la vie.)

Back on topic, did anyone play the IOS game Waking Mars? I think that did simple, stylised and atmosphere-appropriate graphics really well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai8DFc33Bco. Not that I think it's a match for Valley; just an example of not having to push the graphical boat out far to achieve a pretty captivating result in that instance. Valley's much broader, with a lot more diversity of scenery, inhabitants, even time period - so it's always going to be a lot more difficult!

That said, as a fairly old-school gamer I'm a big fan of the pixels!

[x4000]

Here's the latest from Studio K.  I think I'm happy enough with this one to call it pretty well ready except for the head bob.  As a refresher (since it was many pages back), here's the enemy that Studio K also did.

In terms of Studio H, they are still working through layers of concept art before coming up with stuff that will be show-ready.  I have some various things from them, but I don't think that it would be inspiring to show it at this rough stage quite yet.

In terms of the last studio, there's been a lot of discussion back and forth about techniques and styles and trying to nail down the specifics from a technical standpoint.  In a lot of respects I think that their work would be most in keeping with the "feel" of the current art of the game, while moving to articulated sprites instead of frame-based sprites, though.  One thing that I think is slowing them up a bit is that I've asked them to provide their articulated body parts via Spriter or similar, and Spriter as a particular program is new to them.  So I don't have anything concrete from them yet, anyhow, but they've been really doing their due diligence and asking all the right questions.

[Tobias]

Why is that dude leaning forward so hard. That also looks really cartoonish, both of them look like pokemon game boy game sprites.

Just saying.