Author Topic: [FILLED] Looking for artist(s) to develop new style for A Valley Without Wind.  (Read 162153 times)

Offline x4000

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Oh come now, some of us spend so much time living on these forums that of course we'll grow to care a bit. If I were ever in the right part of the country for it, I'd love to just buy one of you guys a beer or beverage of your choice and hang out. But enough sentimentality.

Sure, I understand this intellectually.  And I've been on the other side of things, too -- and indeed have come to know quite a number of you well through your actions and speech.  But it's all very intellectual, isn't it?  I just go into my office and work on stuff, and don't really speak verbally to anyone all day long, and that's that.  So when I say that it's surreal, that's what I mean.  I think there's a book or something called "alone together?"  I guess that makes sense, though I think the premise of that book is negative, which isn't how I feel about it.  Anyway, enough rambling. ;)

A question: If and when the kickstarter... er, starts do you plan to offer a reward tier with the game in it? And if so, when will people get the game? Most kickstarters don't actually have a purchasable product ready to go, so people are happy to wait. But you don't get the money until the funding is done, so will people have to wait until then? Or will you recommend they just go buy the game instead of donating?

Probably there will be a reward tier with the game in it, yes; but that has to eb worked out internally since normally staff would get royalties on these things, and in the case of the kickstarter they would not -- so in one sense that would be eating into our own profits if we give away too many copies of the game.  It's kind of a muddle, there, and I haven't yet decided what makes the most sense all in all.  Given that this whole kickstarter is intended to be a side thing where it's not directly contributing to our income, having it actively draw away potential income might not be the best; though if the art really is that big a barrier and our audience grows then it all balances out.  See how that logic can go round and round? ;) If we were to do that, anyway, then when the kickstarter was funded we'd hand those out.    No reason to make people wait.

In terms of other reward tiers, I think there are plenty of compelling in-game things that we can make exclusive to the kickstarter.  Custom characters or spells that only get unlocked for these people (sort of like a mini-expansion that has more depending on your tier), a few high-dollar ones for getting to custom-design something major in the game (a whole time period? it's a possibility), and so forth.  We'll have to work on figuring out exactly what the compelling rewards will be, and we've got about 2ish weeks to do that.  Suggestions are certainly welcome, although that might make for a better thread.

The idea is that whatever these rewards are, they wouldn't be balance altering, but they wouldn't be purely cosmetic either.  I recall that Wizards of the Coast used to do promotional cards themed with some of their novels, and if you got those cards they were actually useful... just not moreso than other cards that were already in the game and more widely available.  But the exclusivity of those cards was cool, and you got some unique art as well as some slightly unique mechanics out of it.  That sort of thing strikes the right sort of idea to me.
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Offline MouldyK

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In terms of other reward tiers, I think there are plenty of compelling in-game things that we can make exclusive to the kickstarter.  Custom characters or spells that only get unlocked for these people (sort of like a mini-expansion that has more depending on your tier)

I think that would be a nice little incentive for people who already have the game as well as it means they can contribute and get something out of it as well. :) Though if it did go that way, i'd hope they were time-exclusive and available to all at a later date (via part of a larger expansion or just on it's own later so people don't miss out).

Offline x4000

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I dunno -- timed exclusive seems a bit unfair to the people who get that as a reward tier, don't you think?  If it was a physical good we were making, we'd make a batch of X number of those units and ship them to people, then never make any more of them.  That's basically how those promotional cards did (and I believe still do) work with M:TG.

Now, being a digital good we somewhat come into an issue of ethics.  Given that we're going to be continuing to give everyone a bunch of extra free stuff anyhow, I don't see where giving the kickstarter backers something that is exclusively always only to them would be that bad a thing.  Besides, it would be based on a little DRM-free installer, and as soon as people feel like sharing those installers everyone has it anyhow.  Piracy happens, and in this case it's barely piracy since it wouldn't be something we'd be selling anyhow.

I don't know what the right answer is there, honestly.  It's new territory for me.
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Offline keith.lamothe

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I dunno -- timed exclusive seems a bit unfair to the people who get that as a reward tier, don't you think?
I'm used to seeing preorder and whatnot goodies that are made generally available later.  Actually I can't recall offhand a single digitally-distributed game where "exclusive" goodies were not made generally available at some point later; sometimes they'd charge for it, but it was never "nope, sorry, missed the window, you can never ever have that".  I have seen something like that in LoL and other FtP stuff, but not elsewhere.

I think one ethically-workable way is to say upfront that the additional stuff will be available generally later but at a cost, so they're basically getting early access and a discount for their troubles.

A common approach I've seen in kickstarters has been letting certain highish reward tiers actually specify/help-design something in the game.  Obviously that has to be pretty minor (to be cost efficient) or pretty high-ticket, but it's one way to fill out the tier list.
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Offline Penumbra

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specify/help-design something in the game.

Like you guys don't let us do that already ;)

Offline keith.lamothe

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Another thing to bear in mind in terms of custom characters is that the actual art will probably need to be distributed through a normal patch to everyone so that people don't see pink squares in multiplayer.  In AIW we got around that by requiring all players in an MP game to have all the expansions enabled-for-that-game (albeit in trial mode if they hadn't bought it); and I guess in AVWW we could do something similar, but I don't think that would fly for the "kickstarter exclusive content mini-expansion" because that seems a bit odd to fragment on.
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Offline x4000

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All good points Keith... and Penumbra as well. ;)

The help designing on something would have to be pretty high-ticket and pretty unusually involved compared to what we already do.  Or something really specific: commission a character in your likeness or the likeness of your D&D character or whatever.  That's something that would become part of the game and that normally we wouldn't even entertain; but with an art studio able to work with us on it if the kickstarter succeeded, that sort of thing would suddenly be possible.

So potentially it's not exclusive content per se, but rather the ability to commission certain pieces of art that would be what they want and that everyone would then see.
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Offline keith.lamothe

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specify/help-design something in the game.

Like you guys don't let us do that already ;)
Shhh! Don't tell the customers that don't know that ;)

I meant more specifically; when one of y'all say "I want a spell that makes a whale drop from the sky and cause a massive explosion" we kind of take it under advisement; if we made a $500 kickstarter tier and said that people at that level could "design a new spell (within reason)" and gave that as what they wanted, it'd be a little more direct to our to-do-list :)
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Offline Penumbra

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"I want a spell that makes a whale drop from the sky and cause a massive explosion" we kind of take it under advisement; if we made a $500 kickstarter tier and said that people at that level could "design a new spell (within reason)" and gave that as what they wanted, it'd be a little more direct to our to-do-list :)

So your saying the game just went Pay to Win?   :P

Offline zebramatt

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I dunno -- timed exclusive seems a bit unfair to the people who get that as a reward tier, don't you think?
I'm used to seeing preorder and whatnot goodies that are made generally available later.  Actually I can't recall offhand a single digitally-distributed game where "exclusive" goodies were not made generally available at some point later; sometimes they'd charge for it, but it was never "nope, sorry, missed the window, you can never ever have that".  I have seen something like that in LoL and other FtP stuff, but not elsewhere.

I've bought several physical special editions which come with exclusive unlockables for other games which haven't later been made generally available; and Steam does it quite a bit too.

Offline keith.lamothe

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"I want a spell that makes a whale drop from the sky and cause a massive explosion" we kind of take it under advisement; if we made a $500 kickstarter tier and said that people at that level could "design a new spell (within reason)" and gave that as what they wanted, it'd be a little more direct to our to-do-list :)

So your saying the game just went Pay to Win?   :P
I was talking about stuff where they pay for it and we add it to the base game, not that we add it as an exclusive :)
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Offline BobTheJanitor

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Shy away from anything time exclusive and purchase only. One or the other seems to be perfectly acceptable to gamers, but for some reason the combination of buying something and never being able to get it later makes people go mad. I think it reminds people too much of pre-purchaser exclusive weapons and whatnot in some games. You can do 'sign in today only and get free hat' and that's fine, or you can do 'prepurchase to get this hat as a bonus, other people can buy it later' but combining them will unleash the wrath of the internet. The shadowrun kickstarter I think was going to do some tier with exclusive content and people went mad with rage. They pulled that idea pretty quickly.

Offline BobTheJanitor

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I've bought several physical special editions which come with exclusive unlockables for other games which haven't later been made generally available; and Steam does it quite a bit too.

Cosmetic stuff is ok, anything else = internet rage.

Offline madcow

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I would also be concerned about physical rewards which I sometimes see people do (mailed posters/shirts/etc), at least at lower tiers, as that can add up to extra expenses.

Something that would be an interesting reward, is something akin to play a game of X with us. Where X is whatever, AVWW, AI War, or even a non-arcen game (within reason of course). There would need to be a limited number of slots for that one, obviously.

I think another very interesting idea is something that was floating around in the brainstorming thread since before the official release - epitaphs. A tier to submit an epitaph which would randomly seed in the game world. I'm sure a lot of people that already have AVWW would kick in some money just for that, I know I would. Higher tiers could allow more epitaph submissions.

Offline yllamana

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I don't really like the idea of in-game exclusive stuff either, unless it's something purely cosmetic (donate over $x and get ~a hat~ for your in-game character!!). It just seems like making the game worse than it could be for everyone who didn't donate, because they're missing out on the cool whatever it is.

Game licenses seem like a pretty logical reward for those who don't have the game already. One potential problem is those of us who do have the game already would then have to give ours away, and that might be to someone else who would have bought the game. :) I mean, hopefully if this does go through it'll open up the game to many more people, so the lost royalties wouldn't really be an issue (lose x royalties on kickstarter, gain 5x royalties post-new art release).

I could maybe go for something like preordering an expansion as well, which has the same issue from Arcen PoV (since you'd be betting on the gained sales from the new art to outweigh the loss of expansion income). Sort of like a loan from the playerbase I suppose.