[FILLED] Looking for artist(s) to develop new style for A Valley Without Wind.

[Misery]

I'll have to chime in and cast my vote for G's environments overall. I believe that H's direction shares some of the very same problems the core game has...and even more so in some cases. It's not easy putting 8,000 elements together and try to make them work; this is just my little old opinion anyway, but the direction G is going in seems immediately recognizable at a glance without question as to what we are looking at on the screen.

I would rather see something semi-realistic that simply looks solid and believable as opposed to something artsy and abstract. I'm not real big on abstracts in any form, so I can see more than just a face lift happening with G's set (so far). It's also kind of soon to judge and perhaps both elements might work together somehow, too. But those are my two coins...

I have to disagree.   I like the ones from studio H for a simple reason:  They're UNIQUE.   Similar to the game's current graphics in that particular regard.   The ones from G?  To me, extremely generic.  I've seen that sort of style about a bazillion times, and it's the sort of thing where, if I'm looking at screenshots of various random new games, I honestly wouldnt give it a second look, as it would not stand out whatsoever.

The more I see of them, the more I dont like them.   The character and other thing, whatever it was (I suddenly cant remember), were at least OK;  the background and the actual ground/grass are...... well, again, I'd be trying to take them out and replace them.    The current graphics may not be perfect, but they are at least pretty colorful throughout.   A bazillion games have already gone with the "REALITY IS BROWN" sort of idea (which is exactly the impression I get from that background), or the "gritty" look, and aside from getting tired of them, I always find them pretty ugly.


The other studio with the animated sprites..... they didn't give an example as to what their ideas would look like in a complete screenshot, but those sprites ARE impressive, and rather nice looking.  I'm actually interested to see what they might do with the non-sprite stuff.

[nanostrike]

While studio G's might be "Generic", it's a style that I absolutely love and I think they nailed the mix of detail and cartoony enough to be modern, but still evoke 16-bit nostalgia vibes.  In post #258, they really nailed it.  The sleek enemies, the nice environments, the no-longer-pink-and-now-badass armor.

G has my complete vote right now.



To be bluntly honest, and no offense to H here, that looks worse to me than the current art style by FAR.  The colors are eye-bleedingly bright, everything looks to be in some sort of pseudo-chibi "Fat" style, and in general, the stuff looks more "Wacky" than realistic-looking.  Everything is obviously a bunch of different things thrown together and most look like they're from some sort of abstract painting.

It honestly has a more "We just pasted everything together randomly" vibe to it than the current artwork does (No offense to the current artwork), not seeming believable or realistic at all.  And the glyph looks like freaking Navi from Ocarina of Time.  In general, I just hate it completely.  I don't think it's different enough from the current art-style (Which I don't like, I'm sorry to say ) and would actually be a step backwards to me.

I could be wrong.  Maybe they'll have mind-blowing animation or something.  But so far, H kinda makes me wanna hurl.



Haven't seen enough of K to make any real judgements on it, other than the fact that the head-bobbing part of the idle animation was god-awful and the pink-armor was kinda lame.  Need to see some environments from them.

[kof91]

I am just posting in directly forgive me if I said something silly.. have not followed this thread  from the beginning but seems like AVWW wanted a new art style.
What's wrong with the current one? personally liked the current graphics set a lot.

Will user be able to choose btw the current gfx and the future ones?

Pretty cool idea to allow gamers to cast votes based on preference. Are we gonna be able to cast votes like what endless space is doing via their games2gether portal? simple forum poll will do nicely. 

Studio G looks very nice and gave a post apocalyptic feel..

[Mánagarmr]

I think before we judge any studio too quickly their animation skills are the primary thing we should be REALLY caring about, and especially the mockup by Studio G has no trees or foreground objects in it which is why it looks cleaner and slicker (maybe we should think about removing these objects from the foreground, and there is also to consider that due to how the tiles work in AVWW the sleek look will quickly crumble inside a building). And let's not forget that the 3rd studio if I remember right, is doing as the only one the (imo) superior animation method.

Aye, I'm also eager to see some animation work. But as far as this goes, we can't make a judgement on anything but what we see so far.

[Mánagarmr]

I'm sorry, Studio H, but you've been badassed by G

Give them a chance -- you're comparing their sketch to the other's final assets.

I'm not a nice person But yeah, I'm not outright dismissing them and I wasn't actually comparing its "completeness", but it's style. I'm just not a fan of the character art and very odd looking buildings from H. Again, just a personal opinion.

[Misery]

While studio G's might be "Generic", it's a style that I absolutely love and I think they nailed the mix of detail and cartoony enough to be modern, but still evoke 16-bit nostalgia vibes.  In post #258, they really nailed it.  The sleek enemies, the nice environments, the no-longer-pink-and-now-badass armor.

Ehhh? Interesting; I didn't get that from those pics whatsoever (and I'm big into retro-gaming).   And that's part of the problem.... if the graphics really, honestly gave a "16-bit" vibe to me, I'd be all over it.   Instead, I get the direct opposite from it.   I dunno where you see that graphical style in there.   Hell, the current graphics of the game dont do that either (but are still bright/colurful/interesting, so I still like them).  These new ones still look only like an "anime-wannabe" TV show to me, which isnt a good thing.

Unfortunately, I dont think I'll ever be able to see that style as anything other than ugly/annoying.   It's the rare sort of graphics that can actually turn me away from the game as a whole (and I have to find them *really* freaking bad for that to happen.  Normally, this never occurs.)   Unless of course I can indeed find a way to alter/wreck them enough to where it stops irritating me.

*Really* hoping the support for texture packs or whatever they're called is kept if this goes through at all.   I've a feeling I'll be wanting it.

I am just posting in directly forgive me if I said something silly.. have not followed this thread  from the beginning but seems like AVWW wanted a new art style.
What's wrong with the current one? personally liked the current graphics set a lot.

Will user be able to choose btw the current gfx and the future ones?

This.   Somehow I doubt that'd be the case, but it'd be pretty darn nice if the option to just NOT screw with the graphics was there.

Kinda like Minecraft and it's texture packs:  I know alot of people dont like it's really-pixellated style, but some..... such as myself.... really do like it.  I honestly havent found even ONE texture pack for that game that I dont find absolutely horrid.  I'm glad they stuck with that look for the base textures.

[Mánagarmr]

I was under the impression that AVWW already supported texture packs. What's to stop anyone from using the old graphics as a mod? We did it in AI:War when Chris implemented a graphics mod and someone didn't like it. They simply modded in the old graphics. Not a big deal, tbh.

[tigersfan]

Unfortunately, if the graphics do get updated, we won't be able to keep the current ones in the game. Even if the new animations and such end up going into the game the exact same way as the current graphics (which is not necessarily likely), then we still won't be able to keep up two different graphics styles. Sorry, but, that's just not feasible.

Now, as for what's wrong with the graphics... Well, there is some debate about that. But, there have been a lot of comments to the effect that the graphics are ugly, and are the primary reason that people aren't even willing to try the game. So, this, with the ensuing kickstarter are an experiment to see if there really are enough folks out there who feel that way who are willing to help fund new graphics. If not, then, oh well, the graphics stay. If there are, and new graphics open the door to a lot of new players being willing to try the game, then all the better for (most) everyone.

[tigersfan]

I was under the impression that AVWW already supported texture packs. What's to stop anyone from using the old graphics as a mod? We did it in AI:War when Chris implemented a graphics mod and someone didn't like it. They simply modded in the old graphics. Not a big deal, tbh.

Well, this is true, until we get to the point where we add in new graphical assets. New enemies, new buildings, new background objects, new... whatever. Once we start adding that stuff back in, there won't be any of the old style graphics to use in the texture pack anymore.

The other issue would potentially be animation. If we use a different style for animation with the new graphics, then the old ones just may not work at all.

[Mánagarmr]

I think most of my dislike for the studio H stuff stems from the fact that it's disjointed. They've either not made any effort, or not succeeded, to make it blend together like G did. Sure, G needs work, especially as far as ground textures go, but it's coherent and pleasing to the eye.

H is too bright, unfinished and very disjointed. In their mockup, for instance, the glyph looks abysmal (a blue blob, really?), the enemy looks cut n' pasted into the picture compared to the building behind. The buildings have a completely different color scheme and atmosphere about them than the foreground, some of the lines are blurred and soft, while other lines are sharp and "pencil-y". It just doesn't work, in my eyes. That's why I don't like it. I'm also definitely not a fan of the character/enemy design.

Now on to G. G looks coherent and I love the character/enemy design. I'm sorry if it's been done 2000 times before. If it has, I've never seen it (but then I don't watch cartoons so). The buildings have just the right degradation dismal tone to show the downfall of the time period. I fully expect other time chunks to be a lot more colorful and lively (such as forests and villages for instance). The enemy design intrigues me. It makes me think about "what is that thing? Is it conscious? Is it just a robot? Who made it? How does it work? Is it dangerous?" Something about the very picture makes me want to get in there and explore until I fall flat on my face.

This is just my opinion though. G just clicks with me. It makes me want to play. H is even worse off than current graphics in my opinion, and the current graphics aren't bad. There's some extremely busy backgrounds that grate my eyes, and the jump animation drives me crazy after a while, but other than that, it's fine.

[Mánagarmr]

I was under the impression that AVWW already supported texture packs. What's to stop anyone from using the old graphics as a mod? We did it in AI:War when Chris implemented a graphics mod and someone didn't like it. They simply modded in the old graphics. Not a big deal, tbh.

Well, this is true, until we get to the point where we add in new graphical assets. New enemies, new buildings, new background objects, new... whatever. Once we start adding that stuff back in, there won't be any of the old style graphics to use in the texture pack anymore.

The other issue would potentially be animation. If we use a different style for animation with the new graphics, then the old ones just may not work at all.

Never underestimate what a motivated modder can accomplish Leaving the option in there for alternate texture packs is all that is needed. The modders will take care of the rest.

Of course, in order to do that, the actual pack has to be made available for download somehow, and I'm not 100% sure Chris would want that after all the job he went through to make it.

[Chomper]

Hey folks,

Haven't posted since pre-1.0, but as aesthetics do tend to enhance/hinder my gaming experiences (as much as I am loathe to admit it) I feel I should chime in. Here are a few thoughts:

I don't mind the current graphics, but I would like more cohesion. From what I've read this seems to be a thought other players have as well. With that in mind, I really dislike H's proposed graphics. As unique as they might be, at best they don't improve on the cohesion side of things. And at worst, they look like they would create some background/foreground issues. While this isn't a problem for me in the current game, I know it is for some people hence the creation of texture packs that tone down the background.

In addition, while H's graphics are marginally interesting, they're too painterly. This is an action game! If there's one thing that's missing from the current graphics it's a sense of badassery, which I think G has in spades. I've read some on this thread who say it looks generic, which is a perfectly valid opinion. But my question isn't about generic vs. unique. My question is which graphics will make the game enjoyable for you to play? I think we all should consider this; these are the graphics we'll be left with for the rest of our time with this game. I want a game that doesn't turn me off from playing it, and conversely entices me to come back. H's graphics would NOT do that for me. In fact, I find them hideous compared with the current state of graphics.

On the positive side of things, G looks awesome to me. I dig that it looks a bit cartoonish but manages to look like everything exists in a self-contained world that makes sense with itself. That sort of internal cohesion is something that is lacking currently, and that I gravely desire in my secondary fantasty/science fiction worlds. So G is my vote for now.

Also, I'd like to see where K goes. That much more pixelated style might go really well with the music for example. Give it an even further retro vibe, which I can see people, especially new customers (I'm looking at you hipsters) getting into.

One last thing! Please Arcen, don't forget us customers with terrible computers. If implementing one of these styles hampers the ability for the game to perform on a machine with a cough...GMA X3100...cough graphics card, it would really mess up my day. As it stands, this is one of the few exceedingly awesome games my computer can run. In fact, it might be the only one. Just a thought.

Sorry for the rambling incoherence, best this ADD-riddled college kid can do.

[Chomper]

Another thought. I like that G looks so clean. Clutter messes with my head, the washed out feel of H makes it hard to distinguish objects from one another. At least, I can see that being a problem when the spells are flying. (I'm colorblind, so that might be part of the problem, but hey, don't leave us minority groups out of consideration)

[Mánagarmr]

Wow. Seriously, Chomper...don't do that. It's creepy. Now where's my tinfoil hat, I need to keep you out.

[Misery]

If there's one thing that's missing from the current graphics it's a sense of badassery, which I think G has in spades. I've read some on this thread who say it looks generic, which is a perfectly valid opinion. But my question isn't about generic vs. unique. My question is which graphics will make the game enjoyable for you to play? I think we all should consider this; these are the graphics we'll be left with for the rest of our time with this game.

I think this is part of my problem with it, this "badassery" bit.   I could walk into a game store, close my eyes, and randomly point in a random direction, and chances are, I'm pointing in the direction of at least 15 games that are obsessed with looking like that.   It's not just getting old..... it's already ancient dust.   I think of things like Gears of War when I think of something like that;  when I really think about it, GoW is more of what I'm reminded of than anything else, when looking at the stuff from G;  this being due to the much, much-hated "reality is brown" bit that is absolutely oozing out of their examples.    Cant stand it, never could;  as it is, GoW is one of those very rare games I find SO absolutely unholy butt-ugly that I never could bring myself to even try it;  and this aspect is shared with SO many others these days as every idiot developer tries to copy them for reasons I REALLY dont want to understand.


AVWW's actual GAMEPLAY does not bring up a sense of "badassery".   I wouldnt want it to, frankly.   What it brings up is memories of older platformers of the 8-bit & 16-bit days.   Those games were often COLORFUL, as opposed to having a palette consisting of brown, almost brown, more than brown, brown-brown, and super-brown.    And those games often looked *good*.   Brings up thoughts of shmups as well, which is another often very colorful genre, as the graphics go.

That's what the gameplay has always made me think of.   That's part of why G's graphics just seem absolutely out-of-touch with the game to me;  they dont evoke thoughts of those whatsoever.  Just thoughts of things like the crappy early-morning cartoons there are nowadays, and also thoughts of freaking GoW and it's brown/grey everything.   .....and the ugliness, I cant get over that part either.


I know these are just examples, but.... somehow I've a feeling more from G will be more of the same.    The enemy sprites and the actual ground, they arent THAT bad..... character is pretty terrible.... but the background is the worst for me, in those shots.  That's the part I'll end up trying to rip out, above all else.


And yes, I agree, H's dont have much cohesion..... but I wasnt basing my opinion of them on that.   I just looked at each part seperately, since it looked thrown together randomly, I figured it probably wasnt going to look like that in a "full" shot, it seemed like they were just trying to show off a number of ideas all at once.