Feeling railroaded into secret missions

[Mick]

Hello, I started playing this game at release but didn't really put much effort into it at the time. I came back to check out the changes in 1.2 and was really intrigued by the changes. Specifically, I liked that I didn't feel punished for completing surface missions. Having the continent level go up based on killing the lieutenants makes much more sense to me.

However, while the game appears to provide many options of "things to do", and for a short while it does, I feel that in terms of completing my goals, I'm being railroaded into having to hunt down secret missions.

At the moment I've killed two lieutenants and am level 3. I have a good mix of spells that I like,  and I have enchants that all fit my playstyle and needs. The planning tells me that I should be working on killing the other two lieutenants (makes sense) and suggests freeing some NPCs across various ages (the only one I've unlocked so far is Bronze). Because of the shape of my continent, I need to find a few wind shelters in order to reach the area where the other bosses are.

What bothers me is the wealth of things I have available to do that seem to be ... useless.

I like hunting down stashes, and I like the stashes have some more interesting things you can find them them like skill books. However, the stuff I find from stashes seems to very quickly become unnecessary. I don't need platforms or crates, I'm not really interested in a lot of the consumables or boxes, any enchants are very unlikely to be a lot more useful than what I have now.  I don't really feel like I gain a whole lot out of giving the books to my NPCs. It also makes me wonder why I should worry much about tracking down other NPCs at all. I haven't been specifically avoiding doing so, but I haven't had many opportunities to get new ones.

It seems like the only thing useful in the stashes are the shards, but unfortunately they will hold about as many as killing 1-3 monsters. Maybe the "free standing" shard piles should be much larger than the ones you get off of killing things?

Really, all I seem to really NEED in my game is wind shelters. I only have two options for these: run around aimlessly poking my head in things and hope I find a secret mission that gives me one. Or, buy them with shards. The fact that the second option even exists is nice, but I feel like I'm really kinda cheating myself by short-cutting it, and I'd rather accomplish my goals through exploration and missions. I feel like I wouldn't mind the exploration as much if I felt the "side stuff" I come across was more rewarding, or if I had more direction in finding what I want.

Perhaps the problem is that everything that is not provided by a secret mission is just far, far too easy to obtain in comparison. Unfortunately, the surface missions also feel unrewarding when you've gotten the spells you want.

I like the concept of the ideas behind a lot of this game (huge procedural generated worlds, lots to explore, spells to craft, stuff to find, things to build, populations to grow), but it all feels like it falls short when I so quickly get into a stuck state where the only thing I care about come from secret missions.

[TechSY730]

Welcome to the forums.

These concerns about the underwhelming selection that stash rooms tend to provide currently, along with what to do when you have all the spells you want, and/or the world map missions seem to be giving you duplicates or inferior versions of what you already have already been noted elsewhere. Though it is good to get some insight from a fresh "face", instead of just hearing from the people who have been involved for a long time (not that this is a bad thing, but you tend to get a different perspective if you keep up with the development first hand)

One aspect that I think hasn't been explored as much is caves/underground areas. Yes, they contain gems/ores and some secret missions, but not all that much otherwise (this has also been noted). I think adding some more stuff to get in caves (and also, increasing the number of "room templates" that the room generator can pick from for caves, to make it more likely that each cave room will have a different sort of "feel") This could give another way to reward exploration, to help fill the gaps that the current stash room and secret mission system currently has. (Don't get me wrong, I think that the roles stash rooms and secret missions serve as they are now are fine, though both could use some "balance tuning", especially stash rooms)

As for secret missions, IDK how to fix that. Maybe let you know what reward a secret mission will give (by hovering over its entry room) when you are N - 1 hops from the secret mission entrance room? (where N is your "room scouting distance", aka, how many floors above and below you are revealed on the "room layout" when you enter a room) Also, I do think the probability distribution of the rewards for secret missions could use a bit of tuning too.

[BobJustBob]

I don't know that the secret mission concept makes sense anymore with the removal of civilization progress. The whole idea was that they were optional missions you could do for more resources to avoid the penalty associated with world map missions. Now that there's no penalty for world map missions and with the citybuilding stuff and other scrolls being mandatory, they're just missions that it is really annoying to check on. I've got a cycle where I go into visited regions and warp to the secret mission chunk and, usually, leave disappointed. It feels like a lot of wasted time, but the alternative of coming across them naturally during exploring does not happen, because I don't need to do nearly that much unguided exploration.

[Mánagarmr]

You've got a point there Bob. But then again, the secret missions are partly rewards for exploring, but they are quite easy to find since they show up so readily. So hummm...and yet I've never come a cross a single "rescue someone from another time period" mission ever. That's great! I'm stuck with ice age people.

[Hyfrydle]

You've got a point there Bob. But then again, the secret missions are partly rewards for exploring, but they are quite easy to find since they show up so readily. So hummm...and yet I've never come a cross a single "rescue someone from another time period" mission ever. That's great! I'm stuck with ice age people.

Me too I beginning to think these kinds of missions don't exist in my world.

[Mick]

I think I'd like it better if secret missions were more of a neat thing to come across that provides a nice boost and less of something you have to set out and hunt for. I'd like if the crafting component was expanded to include the creation of buildings and the surface missions gave crafting component rewards instead of just straight up spells.

I really don't like getting specific spells from overland missions at all, I'd rather see them as a alternative way to get materials, or at least something different than what they are now. I'd even be happier if they just gave a large boon of conscientiousness shards to let me save for what I want.

I realize this is a delicate balance. You don't really want players to feel that the only "right" way to play is to only search for stashes, or only do surface missions, but as it is right now I feel like neither of those things are rewarding enough, and they are the things I find to be the most fun to do.

[BobTheJanitor]

I liked getting whole spells for doing a mission... at first. Now it does feel a bit like the game is just giving me TOO much all at once. And the fact that I can see what I get before even doing the mission means I'm inclined to just ignore some missions completely. There's no mystery, no sense of getting great loot. It's more like doing a chore and getting a previously agreed on payment. Not as fun as it could be. Either going back to crafting mats for missions or at least some mystery about what spell or bonuses I'm going to get for a spell would make it more interesting.

Edit: Slightly on topic, secret missions: I also think these are in need of tweaking. Since their original reason for existing has gone away, they are sort of purposeless at the moment. I mean I know they've been given purpose through differing rewards, but it's not a very exciting one. I think they'd be better repurposed into something that's more rare to find, but gives a higher quantity/quality of rewards. Then it would be something you run across randomly while exploring and you're excited to find, instead of something you actively go and, dare I say it, grind for.

[TechSY730]

I think many of these issues could be resolved if the mission system as a whole receives some refactoring, like better integration of exploration and missions, possibly eliminating the need for two seperate types of missions.
However, that is a pretty big task.

As a shorter term solution, it would be nice if misison rewards for overworld and secret missions could be mixed up some. Or possibly even reversing the roles of overworld and secret missions (make overworld missions give buildings and guardian powers, and make secret missions give spells). Yes this would make for a trickier early game (and some concessions could be made for that, like some overworld missions giving spells), but making it the other way around seems like it would scale much better in the later stages of the game as players get so strong they are unlikely to get anything better than what they have now, and then start caring more about progressing their continent.

[tigersfan]

One thought I had might be to make secret missions actually secret. As in, they don't show up on the dungeon map, and they are a complete surprise when you run into them (with the possible exception of rescue NPC missions). They would also give you better loot (like rarity orbs and such perhaps). This would make the overworld missions give more varied loot.

The possibility of having the loot be unknown before you do the mission is interesting, but my worry there is that it might lead to even more grinding, as now I have done 25 $(%*ing missions and all I got were these spells I want nothing to do with.

[BobTheJanitor]

Perhaps the mission shows you the spell you get, but the bonus modifiers are hidden until you complete it? That at least retains some of the feeling of opening the treasure chest and seeing what's inside for the end of the mission.

[Mánagarmr]

Perhaps the mission shows you the spell you get, but the bonus modifiers are hidden until you complete it? That at least retains some of the feeling of opening the treasure chest and seeing what's inside for the end of the mission.

This. I feel this would be a great addition. I thought this was the way it worked already?

[Penumbra]

Perhaps the mission shows you the spell you get, but the bonus modifiers are hidden until you complete it? That at least retains some of the feeling of opening the treasure chest and seeing what's inside for the end of the mission.

This. I feel this would be a great addition. I thought this was the way it worked already?

It's what I expected too. But, here is what Chris said before:

With the missions, the intent with them has always been that they would be intentional actions you take in order to get a known reward.  That's kind of their main difference from freeform exploration.

[BobTheJanitor]

This. I feel this would be a great addition. I thought this was the way it worked already?

Nope, they show you exactly what spell with what modifier you're going for. Kind of ruins any chance at a sense of mystery. I have several missions I'm just ignoring until they time out now because the spells have modifiers I'm not interested in. If it didn't tell me up front, I would probably be running them 'just in case'.

[tigersfan]

This. I feel this would be a great addition. I thought this was the way it worked already?

Nope, they show you exactly what spell with what modifier you're going for. Kind of ruins any chance at a sense of mystery. I have several missions I'm just ignoring until they time out now because the spells have modifiers I'm not interested in. If it didn't tell me up front, I would probably be running them 'just in case'.

I get that, but, how frustrated would you be if it felt like you only ever got modifiers you didn't like?

[TechSY730]

This. I feel this would be a great addition. I thought this was the way it worked already?

Nope, they show you exactly what spell with what modifier you're going for. Kind of ruins any chance at a sense of mystery. I have several missions I'm just ignoring until they time out now because the spells have modifiers I'm not interested in. If it didn't tell me up front, I would probably be running them 'just in case'.

I get that, but, how frustrated would you be if it felt like you only ever got modifiers you didn't like?

I'd keep playing, looking for something better, but not sweat it or feel pressured to do so.
For example, look at Borderlands' gun system. Once you got past mid-game, you are "showered" with guns, but you very rarely find guns that are better than what you have (up to very, very rarely by the late game). But that is OK, because you tend to find and keep guns that even though they may be falling behind in level, their bonuses are good enough to keep them competitive for many, many levels past what the gun's level would normally dictate where it would become obsolete.