Falling damage: which mechanic?

[KDR_11k]

I haven't voted yet but I'm just wondering.

What is the real point of gathering more health if all damage is just going to fix itself to your new current health? It becomes totally pointless.

I suppose an argument might be that you're bulking up to fight harder monsters, but no matter how hard you can take a punch to the face, falling off a cliff and breaking your legs, burning all your skin off in an acid pool or having an arm fall off due to hypothermia all hurt about the same.

It's an argument with which I primarily disagree for gameplay reasons, myself (I want a semi-brutal environment which gets less so as you progress) but can see why it might hold some appeal - that is, the world is an always-present danger; it's the stuff in it you can become tougher in comparison to.

Considering what the monsters throw at you I don't think falling, acid or lava are really more painful. Getting struck by lightning, burnt by fireballs, hit in the face by a huge robot, crushed under the tracks of a tank, blasted by a guided missile or caught by lava traps.

[zebramatt]

The most recent patch notes (here) cover this entire topic pretty fully, so I'll close the poll!

The most salient bit:

The method for calculating falling damage has been completely changed.

Old Method (based on number of pixels fallen):

• >= 4000: 100% base health
• >= 3400: 80% base health
• >= 2800: 60% base health
• >= 2200: 40% base health
• >= 1600: 20% base health
• > 1000: 10% base health

New method:

• Must be >= 1000 damage
• Base multiplier calculated as: distance / 10000.

Note: this part of the calculation in particular could stand to be more interesting; we welcome feedback on it, but decided to start simple.

Base multiplier further multiplied by difficulty:

• I Have No Desire To Be The Guy: 10%
• I Am Afraid Of Heights: 50%
• I Can Jump, Thank You: No Change
• I Get Mistaken For A Certain Plumber: 150%
• I Am Not The Guy, But I Am Close: 200%
• I Am Already The Guy: 300%

The fully adjusted multiplier is then multiplied against the base health of the character, and that is the final damage dealt.

[KDR_11k]

I think the difficulty should also affect the damage delay for acid water, currently you can get out without taking damage if you jump out quickly.

Can difficulty affect the world generation parameters? Platforming difficulty should probably change the environment layouts.

[x4000]

I think the difficulty should also affect the damage delay for acid water, currently you can get out without taking damage if you jump out quickly.

That's a tricky one, because there isn't actually a delay per se.  It just polls every second to see if you are in water.  So if you hit it at just the wrong time, the damage is instant.  But if you hit it at the correct time, you have a whole second to get out real quick.  Anything else is in between.

Can difficulty affect the world generation parameters? Platforming difficulty should probably change the environment layouts.

Oh yeah, I was meaning to have it do that -- thanks for reminding me.

[TechSY730]

Can difficulty affect the world generation parameters? Platforming difficulty should probably change the environment layouts.

Oh yeah, I was meaning to have it do that -- thanks for reminding me.

That seems kind of awkward, as that means the platforming difficulty of the landscape of a segment/room will be dependent on the platforming difficulty selection at the time of segment/room generation, not the time you actually traverse it (which may be multiple times, possibly with difficulty changes between them)

Then again, not a huge deal, as I don't expect to see people changing their platforming difficulty very often.

[x4000]

What you say is true, but... yeah, I think that's kind of the tradeoff.

Mostly it would just be seeding fewer ladders, anyhow.

[Penumbra]

This might be really awkward, but could you seed different kinds of platforms? They would all look and work exactly the same to the players, but they would be marked with a "maximum difficultly."  I level 6 platform would always be there, and a level 3 platform would be removed on difficulties passed normal.

Since they players can only change difficulty inside of a settlement, you can be guaranteed that they can't change it while in a room. In multiplayer, you set it based on the first person into a room.

Edit:
You could do the generation in multiple passes. Add in just the bare minimum, then add in a few more for each step down. Heck, level 6 could spawn none! Or, at least very, very few.

[x4000]

Smart!  That would indeed be a good way to do it.  It would complicate mapgen some, but I could actually handle it post-mapgen.  Basically, after a map has been genned, just have it mark a certain percentage of the platforms as "only at difficulty X, Y, Z, etc."  Then not only does it change things, it will change them in really random ways.  One whole ladder might disappear at maximum difficulty, while in another section of the same room just every third step, or whatever.

That sort of unpredictability would make the rooms feel more varied anyhow.

[x4000]

By the by: the generation of an underground is already done in passes.  I lost count how many exactly, but it's at least 44 different code branch passes, many of which have a "loop until no more changes are made" loop inside them.  LOTS of iteration all throughout there to create a cave or surface area.

[Penumbra]

That is better, to do it after and mark the generated ones. Will work on the pre-made rooms too, and give them added difficulty. Especially those that have little bridges over lava and stuff.

[Terraziel]

Smart!  That would indeed be a good way to do it.  It would complicate mapgen some, but I could actually handle it post-mapgen.  Basically, after a map has been genned, just have it mark a certain percentage of the platforms as "only at difficulty X, Y, Z, etc."  Then not only does it change things, it will change them in really random ways.  One whole ladder might disappear at maximum difficulty, while in another section of the same room just every third step, or whatever.

That sort of unpredictability would make the rooms feel more varied anyhow.

Could you do this sort of things for other hazards?

The example that came to mind was could you make more lava\water spawn in caves on higher difficulties? or less on lower obviously.

Having been exploring the lava flats for a while, lava strikes me as something that the "easy" platforming difficulty should probably have little of, but which I would prefer there was more of.

[Penumbra]

Could you do this sort of things for other hazards?

What about also applying it to monster spawn points in boss rooms. Only, being linked to action difficulty instead. Then, the number of monsters could scale easily as well.

[zebramatt]

This all sounds really good!

[x4000]

Yeah, we could tie that pretty easily to all sorts of things, actually.  Lava would be one thing that would be particularly tricky to do that with, but there are other ways of making lava easier on lower difficulties without actually removing it.

There are even things like traps that we could have appearing in higher platforming or combat difficulties which disappear on the lower ones.

[Penumbra]

Lava would be one thing that would be particularly tricky to do that with, but there are other ways of making lava easier on lower difficulties without actually removing it.

Like, guaranteed platforms over it or something?