Author Topic: Battlegrounds  (Read 4130 times)

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Battlegrounds
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2012, 06:49:11 pm »
I wonder what happens if you just drop a 5-high pile of crates a little to the right of the ally base; do the allies just mow them down?
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Offline x4000

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Re: Battlegrounds
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2012, 06:50:03 pm »
Somebody does, anyway -- allies or enemies.  And meanwhile your allies can't shoot past it.
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Battlegrounds
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2012, 03:47:24 am »
A simple tactical decision might be letting the base heal the player so if you're wounded you can decide to fall back and recover instead of fighting on and most likely losing that character.

Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: Battlegrounds
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2012, 04:10:12 am »
Edit: ^^^^ don't know how I missed that since it was posted 20 minutes ago, but that would be very handy as well

I think ideally allies should not die in two shots (on tier 5 at least) as a first solution, and then improve things from there.  ;)

Offline zebramatt

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Re: Battlegrounds
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2012, 05:57:58 am »
I am in favour of all of the above  :)

Offline x4000

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Re: Battlegrounds
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2012, 02:03:53 pm »
Coming in the next version:

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* The ally minions in the battlefield missions were never intended to be neutral skelebots; that was always placeholder.  Neutral skelebots are sentient beings like humans are, and wouldn't just be tossed away in battle if it could be avoided.
** Now new non-sentient robot minions have been introduced specifically for the battlefield missions.  They have their own graphics, which makes them also a lot more distinct any player-controlled neutral skelebots that might be fighting alongside them.
** The new robot minions come in two sizes: large and small.  The small ones now have 100 base health where they previously had 82 base health.  The large ones now have 500 base health where they previously had 82.
** The large ones are also now a lot more resistant to knockback, but only now seed about 9% as often as the smaller ones.
** The large ones are red and come with a 60% fire resistance built in (no elemental weakness like was previously there).
** The small ones are yellow and come with a 60% air resistance built in (no elemental weakness like was previously there).
** The large ally minions no longer collide with the smaller ally minions, and vice-versa, and the large ones thus now move slower.  This keeps the whole line of them slightly more condensed (the larger guys standing above the smaller crowd), while allowing for more variance in things like move speed.
** The shots of the large and small robots also now match their color and element.  So the red ones do fire element damage, and the yellow ones do air element damage, rather than both doing light element damage.

* Will O The Wisps can no longer be used in battlefield missions, because their presence simply makes things too difficult (not to mention making things look a bit glitchy when your guys start lifting into the air and you don't know why).  These are supposed to be freaky denizens of the swamp, anyhow, so making them come out into common battlefields seems like not the best thing even thematically speaking.

* When your character is standing in front of the ally mission base in a battlefield mission, your character now gets healed by the base at a rate of 10 health every 2 seconds.

* Added a new spellgem that you can find in the staging area of battlefield missions, but nowhere else: Battlefield Command Flare
** During battlefield missions, your allies are unable to pass command flares that you place.  This lets you group them up and use them as you wish, rather than always having them running off individually.  Command flares can't be removed, but expire after thirty seconds.

* To add yet more tactical decisions to the battlefield missions, enemies will no longer drop health orbs while in these missions.  You can of course return to your base to heal up, but your allies are at the mercy of whatever health they happen to have, and whatever damage they take.
** This solves the problem of enemies being both obstacle and reward (in the sense of the health orbs being a reward), and lets us focus on balance in a bit of a different way.

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Boy, battlefields feel completely different now with all those changes.  Let's put this discussion on hold until you guys can try the new versions of them in the next update (coming out tonight).  I think you'll like what you find. :)
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Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: Battlegrounds
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2012, 11:51:43 pm »
Having tried a few of these since the patch, I'm unfortunately getting the feeling that they're still too hard. They have improved somewhat. But they're not there yet, for me at least.

I'm playing on a tier 5 continent and at +1 difficulty. My allies are still dying in about two shots, whereas their shots take aeons to bring down a normal enemy. There are something like 6 or 8 towers to take down before I can get to the base, and the base's HP is massive, requiring constant firing for 30-45 seconds to bring it down. The towers still have range long enough that the next one or two over are shooting at me while the previous one is being attacked. There tend to be so many projectiles flying around that dodging becomes pointless, and the most effective tactic is to face-tank a tower while firing three or four spells at once into it.

I managed to win exactly one, and it seems like it may have bugged out, because a huge pile of my allies were hanging out in front of my base firing up at a clockwork probe while it just sat there, giving me enough time to take down the base. They still didn't manage to kill the probe by the time I'd finished off the base and come back from the far end of the field. A skelebot centurion wandered by and one shot all of them shortly thereafter.

Anyone else having better luck?

Offline Professor Paul1290

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Re: Battlegrounds
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2012, 12:30:56 am »
Do you think it might have something to do with the Tier?

I'm using combat difficulty "skilled" and just did a Battlefield mission at  tier 3 and after bunching up some allies then letting them go I rolled towards the other end fairly smoothly. It was much easier than than they were previously and the allies held up fairly well I thought. Previously I used Rhinos a lot in these missions but this time I didn't bother.

Offline x4000

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Re: Battlegrounds
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2012, 01:28:08 pm »
Okay, definitely was a problem, Josh found.  So, for next version:

* Fixed several bugs with how ally minions were being treated too much liked summoned monsters in some cases; and actually fixed a few edge cases with summons that nobody had even reported yet.
** The big takeaway from this one is that ally minions were not getting their health and attacks properly scaled with the continent tier before, but now they are.  This was making battlefield missions get progressively more impossible as the continent tier went up, which was in error.

Thanks!
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Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: Battlegrounds
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2012, 04:35:20 pm »
Battlegrounds are definitely doable now with that fix, thanks!

Another point of discussion though: the health return from the base doesn't feel very well tuned. On the one hand, it's not really needed that much, since I am clearly able to finish the missions without it now. But on the other hand, if I actually do want to use it for healing, the current rate of health return is so low that it might as well not be there. Getting back 10 hp/tick when even a low HP character (assuming normal buffs) is going to be at 400 or 500 hp means that when you are damaged enough that you actually need healing, you would have to sit there for a long time to really get anything out of it. It's actually faster to exit the battleground, run back to your home settlement for a free full heal, and run back to the battleground. Maybe something percentage based instead? Like 5 or 10% of your total HP returned per tick of healing?

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Battlegrounds
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2012, 04:40:06 pm »
It's actually faster to exit the battleground, run back to your home settlement for a free full heal, and run back to the battleground.
Except leaving the mission causes it to be abandoned and reset :)

Quote
Maybe something percentage based instead? Like 5 or 10% of your total HP returned per tick of healing?
That would make sense, I think.
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Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: Battlegrounds
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2012, 04:42:48 pm »
Except leaving the mission causes it to be abandoned and reset :)

Oh, oops. I've only ever left one BG mission halfway and I was about to lose anyway, so I never tried going back since I assumed it would just take me back to a base that was about to implode. It did stay there on the world map after I left though.

Offline x4000

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Re: Battlegrounds
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2012, 05:45:08 pm »
I actually put it painfully low on purpose, for a couple of reasons:

1. If you're just sitting at your own base, then the enemy is having time to come over and harass the heck out of you.

2. If the enemy is piled up near their base, many of those stray shots of theirs are going to be hitting your base, which is bad for you.


In general the base isn't meant to be a way to instantly heal back to full health, or a way to just grind down the mission.  But it is a way to tactically retreat for a bit, heal up a little (but not for too long or you risk the enemy breaching your defenses, as noted above), and then get back into the action.
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Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: Battlegrounds
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2012, 06:16:30 pm »
I can see that, but then the question of why having healing at all comes up. I know from experience that if I retreat and try to use it to heal up enough HP to make a difference, I'm just going to lose my forward momentum and likely have little chance of pushing back to a win. So in that case it just becomes a honey pot trap for uninformed players.

Previously, of course, you could get healing from normal enemy drops so forward momentum was your best bet both for winning and for healing. What if, say, enemies still don't drop health, but the towers drop a moderately large cache of health when killed? This preserves forward momentum without letting you farm enemies for healing. Tower damage or HP could be buffed a bit if needed to make you really work for that health drop.

Offline x4000

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Re: Battlegrounds
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2012, 06:18:38 pm »
I've found it to be a good thing to have to fall back sometimes, personally -- and the right decision at times.  If forward momentum is all there is, then your base will never be destroyed.  Either a) you die; or b) you run away.
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