AVWW2 Beta: Brief opinions/observations and a bug report.

[zaaq]

Related to

I'm replying to this thread to confirm that the bug the OP found is a bug that I've also encountered, in regards to the generated levels being impossible to complete in the Level Up Windmills.

Link to bug reports:
0010152: Impassable area in level-up windmill
0010074: Bad Slices

[LaughingThesaurus]

I've been thinking that a possibility for a death penalty could be something along the lines of disabling perks for a turn or three. Some kind of effect that lasts over a turn but not too long, more than three turns would feel too long in my opinion. This wouldn't be crippling most likely but it would remove some pretty cool buffs and would be nice at representing a weakened state.

Or maybe you lose access to the mage class and perks you were using at the time of death for a turn or three. Something like that will discourage Poison Pill abuse without being too crippling.

I don't like the idea of that, strictly because if you died, you're clearly lacking in something. What will taking away mage classes and perks do, aside from make you lack in more things? This could lead to an unwinnable situation, and especially discourage you from trying new things. If there's some kind of penalty while you still have the power of the oblivion crystal, it needs to be very, very subtle. Maybe a chance of -1 morale so you don't just screw up constantly and deliberately. But I mean, it's way too easy and fast to die to cause actual major punishments to actually be good ideas. Even if it is just for a turn or two, you'll easily get to the point where you actually can't reach any wind generators anymore.
And for the record, once you don't have the oblivion crystal powers, you actually lose 100 mana when you do die. Every time. Pretty steep price in the endgame that you need to plan for. I don't think making it any worse is necessary.

[Teal_Blue]

Just wanted to say that i really, really, really, really like the strategic game in AVWW 2. It's like AI War in the sense that each part of the game is different and requires a different kind of approach to maximize the players chances at beating the game. 

Very, very cool!


-T

[Teal_Blue]

Big block of stuff

A few things:

1, I agree with you on the poison pills.  However, while I myself have not reached the later parts of the game, as I understand it, the rules for death change at some point;  you do have to actually destroy the Oblivion Crystal at some point, which is the thing that allows you to constantly resurrect in the first place.   But the earlier parts of the game where the thing is intact, yeah, there should be SOME effect from death.  Though, dont forget.... the game isnt finished yet.  They might put something in there for this (or they might not).

2.  The strategy bit.  I do think it's deeper than you might be seeing it.   Building VS Destroying, for instance.  The vast majority of the time, you're not doing to be wrecking things.... you should be building, or moving large distances via the Rally command, generally on the way to a spot to build something on.  The only real reason to smash down those.... er.... "evil town" places or whatever they are, AKA, the barriers on the map, is because you need to get your main character past it to something on the other side.  If they're not very directly in the way.... no need to bother with them.   They're basically just wall tiles.  Try other directions first, if some of those are in your way.  The evil outposts as well.... you dont HAVE to destroy these.  They simply make adjacent tiles more difficult.... that's about it.  If one of them is really giving you alot of trouble, THEN go and wreck it.   But most of the time, you can just ignore them.  Simply be aware of which tiles they're affecting, and prepare perks correctly, and be very careful going through the tile in question.   Most of the time, at least by my experience so far, you want to be building things, and doing stuff that gives you benefits or necessary things like food/mana/scrap/whatever.   As you find more and more types of tiles, your options will continue to increase.  It'll go from "Ok, do I make another farm, or another factory" to "Ok, another farm, or a factory, or do I repair the tower, or build a covered farm in the swamp, or build a clinic, or make more housing, or....".   Sorta like that.   The earliest parts of the game when you havent explored much will be fairly simple compared to later on.

About unlocking via expansion:  This is entirely dependant on the RNG.   You're going to find LOTS of different types of tiles.  Caves are only one type... you'll be finding buildings and factories and houses and apartments and castles and various special structures like Ivory Towers or Pyramids.   There's way too many for me to list here.  And all of these different tiles DO something, so long as they are "unlocked" by clearing the area, and so long as they are intact.   Just keep going forward with it, you'll see what I mean.  If you're going into one area and there's mostly just wilderness and caves?  Might wanna go try a different direction on the map, because you definitely do need lots more stuff than caves (not that caves arent a good thing, and there might be times when you WANT to find caves to get perks, but they're proving difficult to come by).


The Overlord:  Yeah, it's not always too clear just HOW this guy moves exactly.   Even if his max range is, say, 5 tiles, he wont always MOVE 5 tiles.  Actually destroying buildings seems to take up a certain amount of his "moves" per turn.   He's powerful, but he's not going to just be wrecking 5 apartments and a castle all in one go, generally.   Alot of times when he IS smashing stuff, his range for that turn will be quite reduced.   And there's also YOUR range to think about.   Not only can you increase the base move range of your survivors by claiming castles, but you can increase the.... er.... "unlock" range, AKA, the range of tiles that open up when you destroy a wind thingy.  I think the game explains this in your strategic overview.... "Amplification Towers", I think they're called.   You want these.  As you get more, your unlock-at-once range will go up.... so long as Jerkface doesnt go step on it.   Like everything else though, you can re-build it with a mission.  And of course, based on the layout of the land, the boss isnt always going to be able to actually smash something on a given turn, he may have to use the entire turn JUST moving, similar to your "rally" command with survivors.   Again though, as you find more tiles and see how things work and what options you have, the strategy here will start to make more sense.   Alot of strategy in deciding what to build/do, WHEN to build/do it, and so on.  Breaking down the wall/town/whatever tiles and such is still important, but you seriously wont be doing it all that often.     The number of survivors, the reasons for increasing that number (and knowing WHEN to try to increase it by rescuing them), and reasons to split them up (yes, you're probably going to want to do this, for various reasons) should become a bit more clear as you go along.  One hint:  Even if you have your guys all split up, it's often very easy to immediately get all of them back together in a single turn when you need to, particularly as you unlock warp points and castles.

There's alot of different ways to go about things here, though I do agree that it's not always super clear, when learning it.   The game sorta explains the earliest bits of it, and there's some good stuff with the strategic overview, but alot of other things, it just dumps you in the deep end, lol.   And then you find out that the deep end keeps getting deeper yet (in a good way, though).


After having spent many hours with the game now myself, I can say this:  The strategy part of the game IS really pretty deep.... Arcen knows what they're doing when it comes to strategy in general.  This part of the game has gotten lots of praise so far for good reason.   But it can be tough to learn, and figuring out all of the different tactics and such that you can use to get ahead isnt always so easy.   

Good feedback post, though, overall.

I really, really, really liked your thoughts on the strategy part of the game.     Very cool! Thank you for the enlightenment.

-T