AVWW2 Beta 707 Control Update

[Itchykobu]

I'm not really liking the new control that has been implemented. Now if I'm jumping up and down trying to shoot an enemy over a ledge (like the one in the screenshot attached) I'm hitting left and right a bunch of times (and thus moving back and forth instead of staying in the spot i want) to shoot straight at them. Otherwise the shots are going off into the sky/ceiling.

Edit:
Also causing annoyances on long flat stretches. I was just shooting at an enemy directly in front of me. It fired a projectile, so I jumped to dodge, but then I was automatically shooting at an angle when I landed, and totally missing my target until I moved again.

[Pepisolo]

Only had a quick test, but I agree. I was trying to shoot horizontally while jumping, but the angle kept changing -- incredibly frustrating. With the current system you have to actually move horizontally to shoot horizontally while jumping.

Personally, using the Metroidian shoulder triggers to change angle works fine for me after extensively remapping the default controls to my liking. Although I still  think that the Alien Soldier style switch from fixed aim to free aim system might be the best one to use. Works great in Contra Hard corps, too.

[madcow]

Yes, I'm finding this bug in the fix more annoying than the solution.

Jumping alone shouldn't cause the upward angle shot, and a toggle wouldn't be awful either.

[dagyo]

I was wondering what the deal with this was... I thought I had something messed up in the keybindings or the xbox controller compatibility was screwy.

In the patch notes...

This isn't an option to toggle on and off simply because it's so unobtrusive the way that it's been implemented. But if that later seems needed, we can certainly add a toggle.

Needless to say, this needs a toggle ASAP!

And so my first post isn't just a complaint, I'll say that I'm loving the game 

[SerratedSabre]

I haven't played yet (though I will a bit later), so I'm wondering how the shooting is? Is it a button for each skill, or one button to shoot, and another button (or two) to toggle spells? Cause if it's the second, I have a suggestion.

Alien Soldier (and Hard Corp for that matter) had a way to toggle between firing fixed (stand in one place while shooting, so 8-way aiming is more stable) and firing free (move and shoot, which makes 8-way aiming a little tricky).

Gunstar Superheroes for the GBA had each mode tied to a different button, with the free firing on the one of the face buttons (B and A) and fixed firing on one of the shoulder buttons (L and R). You could use your thumb for free firing, and your index for fixed really easily. With a bit of practice, it makes switching modes rather fluid and quick.

It also opened up a more advanced trick. When both buttons were held down, your firing direction was fixed, but you could still move freely. So you start firing with the fixed fire button held down to set the direction, then hold down the free fire as well to move so you could dodge or keep your fire trained on a target as it moved.

It worked cause it used both the thumb and the index finger in rather neat way. I don't how well it would translate to a keyboard though, but it's definitely worth mentioning.

[dagyo]

It's a button for each skill but I still like your idea.

As it is now I have my triggers mapped to aim down/up... I don't have a problem with this but it would be great if I could map them instead to do what you're suggesting.

[darkchair]

I'm digging the control scheme otherwise. While I could probably get used to having to hold left and right while in the air to shoot horizontally, it's counter-intuitive, pretty infuriating, and unnatural to do so. I recommend defaulting to horizontal shots if only for the sake of not scarring away new players with even wackier controls.
But if for some reason you want the gameplay to work like this and make jump shots effectively harder/worse, then that's fair, but already just starting the game on Hero difficulty I'm finding it very difficult to shoot certain enemies with the new caliber mechanics.

Otherwise loving the game keep it up!

FYI I mapped skills 1,2,3, and 4 to Q,W,A, and S. Also made R the interact button. Though the default controls were manageable quickly thanks to just playing Sequence for multiple hours , it still definitely wasn't intuitive.

[doubtful]

I have to agree I strongly dislike this new "jump shot goes upward for no reason" thing.

If I want to aim diagonally, I can do it manually and probably won't want to be jumping if I don't have to anyway.

[Misery]

So.... this new bit is being a problem, then?   This is what I thought might happen, when I heard how this new bit works.   It sounds like this needs to be able to be turned off in the options.... is that not the case?


Hmm.   Since this sounds like it'd drive me completely up the wall, I'm going to hold off on updating till it's fixed up a bit.

[MouldyK]

Super Meat Boy informs players that the best way to play the game is by a controller and the same should be done for this game as the controls seem not designed around the keyboard right now, which is why I do not use it.

I generally live by a few rules on PC games, for example:

- Shooters against AI: Controller as it feels comfier and I can usually take my time.
- Shooters against people: Keyboard and Mouse as more responsive and precise.
- Racing: Controller.
- Platforming: Controller.


I mean, while you can use the Keyboard and Mouse for racing games, they generally are not designed around them and thus people who use them will be at a disadvantage. I mean even Trackmania, a game which is usually always played with a keyboard became more controller friendly with Trackmania 2: Canyon.


Trying to cater to everyone in the same way must be hard for developers. And if people complain about the controls, they try adding features which seem a bit out of place, like this one.

[Misery]

Super Meat Boy informs players that the best way to play the game is by a controller and the same should be done for this game as the controls seem not designed around the keyboard right now, which is why I do not use it.

I generally live by a few rules on PC games, for example:

- Shooters against AI: Controller as it feels comfier and I can usually take my time.
- Shooters against people: Keyboard and Mouse as more responsive and precise.
- Racing: Controller.
- Platforming: Controller.


I mean, while you can use the Keyboard and Mouse for racing games, they generally are not designed around them and thus people who use them will be at a disadvantage. I mean even Trackmania, a game which is usually always played with a keyboard became more controller friendly with Trackmania 2: Canyon.


Trying to cater to everyone in the same way must be hard for developers. And if people complain about the controls, they try adding features which seem a bit out of place, like this one.

Trust me, this bit that this topic is about doesnt help controller-users either.

Gave it a go myself (PS3 controller).  All it did was make me die more.   Definitely sticking with the previous version for now.

[MouldyK]

Oh, I know. Hence why I said trying to please everyone will lead to ruining it for everyone.

Hopefully they will sort it out in the Beta, even if they need to try something new each time they make an update.

I think the controller set-up in 0.706 was fine (not that it can't be improved), so they need to figure out how to bring the keyboard controls up to speed, either with a toggle or something else.

[chemical_art]

Super Meat Boy informs players that the best way to play the game is by a controller and the same should be done for this game as the controls seem not designed around the keyboard right now, which is why I do not use it.

I generally live by a few rules on PC games, for example:

- Shooters against AI: Controller as it feels comfier and I can usually take my time.
- Shooters against people: Keyboard and Mouse as more responsive and precise.
- Racing: Controller.
- Platforming: Controller.


I mean, while you can use the Keyboard and Mouse for racing games, they generally are not designed around them and thus people who use them will be at a disadvantage. I mean even Trackmania, a game which is usually always played with a keyboard became more controller friendly with Trackmania 2: Canyon.


Trying to cater to everyone in the same way must be hard for developers. And if people complain about the controls, they try adding features which seem a bit out of place, like this one.

The problem is that going needing a controller while removing mouse access is not a good solution.

90% of gamers have access to a mouse.
10% have access to a controller that is setup to work with a computer.

Taking away a mouse, then making a game require a controller, is frankly a slap in the face to those without. The issue is not that the game requires it, but rather altering a game so that it need it rather then just needing the controller from the start (and at least having the option for a mouse)

Which is exactly the vibe I got from seeing that screen. It seems arrogant, opinionated, and completely unnecessary.

[MouldyK]

Which is exactly the vibe I got from seeing that screen. It seems arrogant, opinionated, and completely unnecessary.

So...just like the "The Way It's Meant To Be Played" for Nvidia then? I think they just did it as a touch of humour as I really don't think they care. You can say that the Xbox controller screen in Serious Sam 3 for PC and other games is opinionated as well. Why the 360 controller? FAVOURITISM, HO!


And i'm sure Arcen are not slapping people in the face by taking away mouse control, it is just that they have a different vision for this game which is different from the first game.

If it was me, i'd put mouse support in the beta for the game, then see how many people complain how that is not to their liking or how it unbalances things.

[chemical_art]

"The way its meant to be played" from any hardware company is different because A) It's marketing B) It's not "if you don't play it this way you are <nasty implications>

It is fine for a pop up to say "best if played with X". Saying "if you don't play with X you are bad" is not.

In essence, the contents with the message is not bad, it is how it is presented.