AVWW Post-Release 1.001 "Arrival Of The Elites" Released!

[TechSY730]

All those new elites really scare me, especially on my alpha world where I've killed hundreds of everything...

It would be really funny to see that when AVWW 5.0 comes out, someone is still playing on a world that was first created on version 0.500.

[x4000]

Thanks, folks, for the kind feedback.   In terms of the anachronism missions, I'm not surprised that some folks are reacting this way, but I am surprised how many people felt that way.  I take that as a good sign!  Doing a more puzzle-centric "Major Anachronism" type of mission (and probably renaming the existing ones to Minor Anachronism instead) should be something we can do pretty quickly.  In general when folks can't agree with a game as open-ended as this, my solution tends to be "do both!"

Making the more puzzle-oriented anachronisms into something skill-based is beside the point: the people who like the original style of the anachronism missions liked them for their puzzle-y aspects.  So how can we best play up the puzzle-y aspects in a major anachronism mission type?  Just go back to what we had before for that type of mission?  Something slightly else?  There's a new brainstorming thread where you can weigh in, here: http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,10383.0.html

[Mánagarmr]

This is why we have nice things. Arcen <3

[x4000]

Cheers. 

[KingIsaacLinksr]

This is why we have nice things. Arcen <3

+1

King 

[Bluddy]

Question: why are regular bats etc completely replaced by elites? Why not add them to the mix (so long as they can be visually distinguished?) Also, will the regular bats etc ever come back in the next continent? It would be a shame never to have them back again. Also, 80 is a pretty low number, especially for bats and icicle leapers.

[zebramatt]

I felt similarly when I first read it. But I've not made up my mind.

[Penumbra]

Question: why are regular bats etc completely replaced by elites?

I think it's because bats are boring by the time you have killed X of them. Think of the elite versions of all monsters what they should have been all along, only they were holding back to be nice 

[x4000]

Question: why are regular bats etc completely replaced by elites?

I think it's because bats are boring by the time you have killed X of them. Think of the elite versions of all monsters what they should have been all along, only they were holding back to be nice 

Exactly.  Also, the point is to never visually distinguish the elites: they are new behavior modifiers for existing enemies, not entirely new enemy types.

Regular bats are okay when you're learning, but past a certain point they just aren't interesting at all.  No amount of new enemies added into addition to bats will keep the bats from diluting things and making it so that there are always pockets of boring along with the pockets of awesome.  Hence the two-lane approach: elites that replace, and brand-new enemies that augment.

Very welcome to feedback on thresholds for adding of elites, though; I had wondered if perhaps 80 wasn't way too low.  Then again, you fight a pretty good mix of enemies (which will continue to be expanding), so killing 80 bats isn't like killing 80 enemies in general -- it might be killing 1600 enemies, if there was a bat you killed for every 19 other enemies you killed (and that seems high, really).

Given how people tend to progress at the game, killing 1600 enemies seems like it would take a really long time, meaning that the elites really wouldn't be showing up for a while for most enemy types.

[Hyfrydle]

I understand your thinking on bats or non-elites becoming boring but if kept in the mix it would keep people on their toes as they wouldn't know if it was elite or not. Also battling a mix of elites and normal mobs would be challenging.

[Penumbra]

I understand your thinking on bats or non-elites becoming boring but if kept in the mix it would keep people on their toes as they wouldn't know if it was elite or not. Also battling a mix of elites and normal mobs would be challenging.

That's what Fire Bats are for, so you can fight both Bats and Fire Bats at the same time. The bats just learned how to scream louder, is all 

[x4000]

Yep -- we have two things.  Variants and elites.  The variants get added to the mix, while the elites replace.

[Bluddy]

Well, I don't want the old bats never to come back after I killed 80 of them.

Why not have it connected to the tier? After I kill 80 bats, tier 2 bats are elite and tier 4 bats are super elite or whatever. Wouldn't that make sense?

[x4000]

Sonic bats ARE the old bats.  Just with an extra ranged ability when they get near you.  That's literally the only difference.

And the tier doesn't matter much, because based on your increased enchants you're going to just be shredding regular bats.  They're... well, boring.  They don't even get near you before you shred them most of the time, I presume.  Giving them a ranged attack just gives them a bit of a fighting chance.

[Bluddy]

Actually with keyboard-only controls they're not so easy to hit because of their weaving movement and because they're so small. Plus, they blend into the dark background of caves.

You're basically saying there should only be 80 of these guys (with this behavior) in the WHOLE game, and that just seems a bit much to me. Will the sonic bats also try to hit you with a melee attack, or will they only hit from afar?