Author Topic: AVWW Beta 0.928 "Achieving The Leading Causes Of Death " Released!  (Read 4426 times)

Offline x4000

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Original: http://arcengames.blogspot.com/2012/04/avww-beta-0928-achieving-leading-causes.html

This one was supposed to come out yesterday, but then, well... it grew.  A lot.

Achievements
So, not that long ago we weren't sure if we'd have time to have these at all.  Then a few days ago I was saying we'd probably have 15-20 or so for 1.0, and then get to more later on.  Ah... yeah.  This version adds 104 achievements, which will be the sum total of what we do in terms of achievements for 1.0; and we will indeed add more after 1.0, too.  Did I mention that they all have unique art?  That's a lot of icons...

Lots Of Other Miscellany, And The Last Of The "Things We Learned At PAX East" Stuff
So, yeah.  The release notes are long, and varied.  A goodly number of fixes for multiplayer, and lots of fixes for solo also.  In no particular order, here were some particularly salient changes:

- The randomly generated professions of NPCs on continents beyond the first is now a lot more friendly.

 - Warp gate function is now clearer based on a second sign seeding in them, and you can also now use warp gates without actually entering them (handy if you're not being chased by monsters and want to save a tiny bit of time).

- Wooden platforms work oh-so-much-better now.  You can make literal staircases with them that you can just walk up by moving to the side.  And you don't fall through them crazily anymore when it looks like you shouldn't and you're walking across multiple of them.  And they hang onto background walls that are near sky a lot better now.  All in all: holy cow, these are completely different and better.  And there were some small camera improvements to the Y axis to support this, and that also makes a subtle improvement in terms of smoothness, too.

- Ridiculous numbers of more changes to the intro mission to make things briefer and clearer wherever possible, and to hopefully instill the idea that tactics actually matter when choosing your attack position, etc.  We also put in a lot more safeguards to prevent some of the more common shooting-yourself-innocently-in-the-foot cases that people were commonly getting into.

- This one is huge: the recharge rate for mana is now about twice as fast, but most characters also get less mana.  The full rationale is in the release notes, but basically: a) waiting around for mana recharge isn't fun; and b) having some characters that have access to high-mana spells that other characters can't even wield is really interesting, but only when they can actually cast those higher-mana spells with a good degree of frequency as well.  All in all the idea is to make mana a more valid and interesting gameplay choice to focus in, although obviously that will depend partly on the new spells we'll be adding soon to really make that pop.

More to come soon.  Enjoy!

This is a standard update that you can download through the in-game updater itself, if you already have 0.500 or later. When you launch the game, you'll see the notice of the update having been found if you're connected to the Internet at the time.  If you don't have 0.500 or later, you can download that here.
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Offline Wanderer

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Re: AVWW Beta 0.928 "Achieving The Leading Causes Of Death " Released!
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2012, 12:27:25 am »
Wandering Nomads MP server is re-deployed on new version if anyone wants to MP test.

Looking forward to that double mana regen.  I keep running out of MP using Energy Ball 1 against... anything, really. :)

Edit: Oh, yes, that mp regen is NICE....
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 12:29:47 am by Wanderer »
... and then we'll have cake.

Offline Wanderer

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Re: AVWW Beta 0.928 "Achieving The Leading Causes Of Death " Released!
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2012, 01:28:30 am »
These new fixes are really nice.  I also just found the joy that is tab-assisted aiming.  True and utter joy, particularly against bats.  My pause is no longer on tab. 

However, I found it because after upgrading my override of tab from pause disappeared, kinda odd.  That normal?

I'm not sure it was intentional but the mining spell Fire Touch 1 never runs out of mp now, meaning you can just lay waste to generators.  Might need to review a few spells and tweak.

A request, I'm not sure how to password the server and what not.  I've been trying to 'claim_admin_rights' and I keep chatting it without it doing anything.  Obviously I'm doing it wrong.  I read through the wiki and my understanding is I need to type that in with the server password... however, I can't figure out where to setup the server password.  Can someone point me in the right direction (I assume Toll knows how to deal with this if he gets a chance).

Edit: Meant to add the platform-walkway works very nicely now that you don't have to "Mind the Gap".  Thanks for that.  Having been born/bred in NYC I guess I'm just used to not slipping under the train. ;)
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 01:34:54 am by Wanderer »
... and then we'll have cake.

Offline Penumbra

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Re: AVWW Beta 0.928 "Achieving The Leading Causes Of Death " Released!
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2012, 03:05:06 am »
The new wooden platforms are amazing!!! They just work. I hadn't even really realized before, I was just used to them.  Now, I can make actual bridges and they stick perfectly to the background areas! Those overhangs in outside perfection missions will be much simpler without RtL now that we can make proper ledges.

It's possible to cover a pool now and walk across with impunity! Sometimes you have to double up if you miss click, but the end result is wonderful!

Offline MouldyK

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Re: AVWW Beta 0.928 "Achieving The Leading Causes Of Death " Released!
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2012, 06:26:28 am »
If I get Achievies in this version, when (if) I can transfer the game to Steam when it is 1.0, will I have to get them again? :)

I told myself I would stop playing for a week until 1.0, but these goodies are just too nice, especially the mana. :D

Offline Dizzard

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Re: AVWW Beta 0.928 "Achieving The Leading Causes Of Death " Released!
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2012, 07:16:52 am »
If I get Achievies in this version, when (if) I can transfer the game to Steam when it is 1.0, will I have to get them again? :)

I told myself I would stop playing for a week until 1.0, but these goodies are just too nice, especially the mana. :D

I've been a bit like this too, although not entirely out of choice.

I'm hoping to wait until 1.0 and start a new game fresh. Although I'm having a peek now anyway. :p

Offline Terraziel

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Re: AVWW Beta 0.928 "Achieving The Leading Causes Of Death " Released!
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2012, 07:20:53 am »
I have to say that I'm not a fan of the mana regen change, but I think part of that is vagueness over "mega-spells".

The example given was Launch Meteor, but Launch Meteor has half the mana cost per second of even Launch Rock, and can be fired infinitely by anyone with the mana to fire it (and 120 mana isn't exactly a high bar), I was actually surprised to see it counted as a "mega-spell", I would imagine Creeping Death is in the list too and I used that as a basic spell with the lower mana regen, now it can also be fired infinitely and it has sort of lost its lustre.

As it stands the range of spells that can't be fired infinitely is limited not to high cost spells but to low cooldown spells (e.g Tidal Pulse and Forest Rage) and even those, accepting that forest rage isn't actually firing as fast as it should be, can be made spammable by a couple of enchants.

In case you are wondering why I'm hung up on how often things can be fired it's because rarity is what makes things feel special, if your "mega-spells" can be used like basic spells then that is exactly what they are, basic spells, why would I use Fireball when I can use Fireball XL5 just as often?

The overall point is that if you want "mega-spells" then you need to do mega-spells. I already have an old mantis up for changing Creeping Death, as i recall the initial (disregarded by me) suggestion was doubling the mana cost and tripling the damage, with the lowering of mana totals a cost of 400 would actually put it in Mega-spell territory.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AVWW Beta 0.928 "Achieving The Leading Causes Of Death " Released!
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2012, 09:43:52 am »
A request, I'm not sure how to password the server and what not.  I've been trying to 'claim_admin_rights' and I keep chatting it without it doing anything.  Obviously I'm doing it wrong.  I read through the wiki and my understanding is I need to type that in with the server password... however, I can't figure out where to setup the server password.  Can someone point me in the right direction (I assume Toll knows how to deal with this if he gets a chance).
I just checked the wiki and yea, I'm not sure what happened there, but the info was pretty garbled.  Just fixed it up a bit (guess I should do that in the in-game documentation too).  Here's the corrected/updated info relevant to your question:

Quote
'''Note''': entering a server command is done by entering "cmd:" (without the quotes) into the chat box followed by the command name (and parameters, if any).

'''claim_admin_rights''' Entered via the chat window, followed by the admin password set by the owner of the server.
 
This command will allow you to do administrative tasks on the server such as banning and kicking players, and adding and removing various permissions for players. In order to successfully claim admin rights, you must get the server password from the person running the server, as the password can only be set or changed by them.

* Note: this cannot work at all unless the server has an admin password set.  For security reasons the admin password cannot be set or changed from within the program; to set the admin password:
** Close the game.
** Using a text editor, open the settings.dat file in the RuntimeData directory in your AVWW installation.
** Add a line with "AdminPassword:" followed by whatever password you want.  The password is case-sensitive.
** Restart the server
** Now claim_admin_rights (followed by the correct password) will work.

* Note: These rights are removed when the player is logged out of the server.
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AVWW Beta 0.928 "Achieving The Leading Causes Of Death " Released!
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2012, 09:45:30 am »
On the mana-regen thing:

Anyone who's felt it was too slow previously, how much had you tried mana-cost-reducing enchants?  Granted those can take a while to find, just wondering.
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Offline x4000

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Re: AVWW Beta 0.928 "Achieving The Leading Causes Of Death " Released!
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2012, 10:35:41 am »
About the mana regen thing, here's my reasoning:

1. Previously we had two systems for making powerful spells slow to cast: mana and cooldown.  That's redundant, a little confusing, and mostly just annoys new players with small spells.

2. Mana, it seems to me, would be more interesting as a "do I have the capacity to cast this at all" sort of meter.  That's something that doesn't overlap with cooldowns at all.

3. For the next week, my most ardent concern is the new player experience -- making the new player experience fiddly so that the hardcore players get something more fun later is a Really Bad Idea (tm).  At PAX it was really apparent how frustrating it was to get that "not enough mana to cast X" popup a bunch.  It's simply not any fun, and 100% definitely had to be fixed.

4. I look at balancing stuff like this almost like a chemistry equation.  When you change one side of the equation, then it puts the other side out of balance, sure.  So now we have some problems at the upper end.  But at some point you have to pick some variables that you say "these are fixed and are now correct, and we'll balance the rest around them."  When you keep shifting all the variables at once, it's really hard to come out with a balanced equation.

5. What I mean by #4 is that the new player experience has to be good -- and therefore the mana regen can't be painfully slow from the start.  End of story.  We're going to frustrate people left and right if we do that, and so we just simply can't do that.  This is our fixed variable: mana needs to regen pretty darn fast, there's simply no two ways about it... so now it's time to balance the rest of the equation around that.

6. My rationale is that, contrary to some of my prior thinking, there's not really any good reason to use mana as a limiter as how frequently you can cast the smaller spells.  If you look at most Metroidvania type titles, you get infinite shots with your basic stuff.  I think we had too many spells where you had to be overly conservative of mana because of their rate of usage.

7. Going along with that, however, I think we still have too narrow a spectrum of spell mana costs; which is right in line with what you were saying, Terraziel.  We need more of a spread in terms of mana costs, which will do two things: 1) it will make certain spells closed off to low-mana characters; 2) it will make it so that the high-mana characters who want to use those spells actually get right back into the situation of having to watch their mana a bit and be careful, because while the regen rate has been doubled, if we double the mana costs of a spell then we're right back to where we were before with that spell.

8. So you can almost infer that nothing changed from #7, but that's not right either.  The difference being that suddenly we have a lot more variety of spells: stuff that is cheap and infinite-fire and that anyone can use; stuff that is middle-cost and which a lot of characters (but not all) can use, and which works more or less like things previously did; and stuff that is substantially higher-cost and where a high-mana character with the mana-regen enchants is going to be a really interesting new kind of glass cannon; and then finally the really ultra-powerful spells (of which we currently have none), where perhaps only super-high-mana characters can even cast them all, but they are devastating when they are used.

9. The trouble is, as I noted in the release notes, I've not really added those other spells yet, and nor have I gone through the current crop of spells to shift them around much.

10. Oh, and cooldowns are still around and are all kinds of useful for the mega-spells, too.  We already use pretty long cooldowns on these for the summons, but for really powerful spells we could do some pretty crazy stuff with these.  The worry of being able to spam a mega-spell because of mana regen rates is not actually something to worry about, because cooldowns give us perfect flexibility on that front.


TLDR: My goal is to both make the new player experience smoother, and actually to give more complex and deeper options for advanced players at the same time, and I think that the changes so far are a really solid step in that direction.  I hate making players play one way, and the mana balance was getting in the way and making a lot of things feel same-y that shouldn't have.
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Offline Penumbra

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Re: AVWW Beta 0.928 "Achieving The Leading Causes Of Death " Released!
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2012, 11:12:00 am »
Not to open a (previously thought empty) can or worms, but the new mana regen is almost feeling like a heat system....  ::) .....  :-\ ....   :-X

Offline x4000

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Re: AVWW Beta 0.928 "Achieving The Leading Causes Of Death " Released!
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2012, 11:15:59 am »
Not to open a (previously thought empty) can or worms, but the new mana regen is almost feeling like a heat system....  ::) .....  :-\ ....   :-X

Hahaha.  Yeah, in some ways.
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Offline Hyfrydle

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Re: AVWW Beta 0.928 "Achieving The Leading Causes Of Death " Released!
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2012, 11:41:49 am »
On the mana-regen thing:

Anyone who's felt it was too slow previously, how much had you tried mana-cost-reducing enchants?  Granted those can take a while to find, just wondering.

I always find other enchants that are more benficial in the slot than mana reducing enchants take.

Offline TechSY730

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Re: AVWW Beta 0.928 "Achieving The Leading Causes Of Death " Released!
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2012, 11:51:59 am »
I'm sure lots of players that expressed concern when fire touch was made to have a noticeable drain rate on MP are resiting the urge to say "I told you so"

I'm not trying to be rude*, just pointing out some of those concerns proved to be justified.
Also, while free fire touch may have been too cheap, as it is now, fire touch (the supposedly most basic spell) is too expensive.

*though to entirely honest, I am trying to be a little bit of a wiseass, something that other long time forum lurkers would know I almost never deliberately try to do
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 11:54:05 am by techsy730 »

Offline x4000

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Re: AVWW Beta 0.928 "Achieving The Leading Causes Of Death " Released!
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2012, 11:56:12 am »
I'm not much of ones for "told you so" in either direction, to be honest; it's just not productive.  My assumption is always that anything can and will change.  But until I have a clear basis for doing something one way versus another, and I'm confident that the new way has fewer drawbacks than whatever is current, I don't make a move.

I could just as easily turn it around on those were were commenting on fire touch and say "you didn't make a very good case for something that is now clearly warranted," but that wouldn't be productive either.  Sometimes we just have to go through a trial phase and see what shakes out, on both ends of it, and now we have.

Seems like the system is working well all around, to me!
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