AVWW Beta 0.903 "There Was A Hole Here" Released!

[Terraziel]

I'll start off by saying this is both hypothetical and an edge case but...

I have just come across a room in a desert building which, had I not had at least a fairly good jump power increase (you would need about a 25% height increase), would have contained an inescapable pit and further a portion of the room would have been unreachable.

What makes this an edge case is I play on "I am already the guy" so this only occurred because of the random chance of platform choice, indeed there was an identical but escapable pit next to the inescapable one. The difference was one had a few ladders left in the entrance and the other didn't.

Now, the issue as i see it, was not that the platforms were gone, but that the players has no way of replacing them, player placed wooden platforms are far too large to fit in the gaps in buildings. With the way it stands the hardest difficulty runs a risk of being about having the correct powers, rather than about skill or patience. Obviously the argument could be made that by playing on the hardest platforming difficulty the player should be paying more attention to the escapability of holes but this case would have been pretty hard to judge before hand.

as a secondary point, is it possible to take the platforms that are hidden off the minimap? It lying to you is fairly unhelpful.


EDIT:

Is this correct in the next update notes:

The density of tiles per monster spawner in boss rooms has now decreased from 30 to 50 tiles. This makes for fewer trash mobs swarming throughout boss rooms, although they are certainly still there.

    As an added rule, the minimum number of nests is now 2 rather than 1, however.

Density has decreased from 30 to 50 (This is an increase should it be the other way around?)
Minimum number of nests now 2 instead of 1 (Should this be 1 instead of 2?)

I'm confused sorry hope I'm not been thick!!!

I think the notes are a bit vague but the point it is trying to get across is....

Previously you would be getting 1  spawner every 30 tiles, now you will be getting 1 spawner every 50 tiles.

To compensate for this somewhat the minimum has been made 2 spawners.

[Hyfrydle]

Ah that makes more sense I was having a quick skim of the notes in work so I misunderstood this. Thanks for clearing it up.

[x4000]

Finally found an NPC rescue mission after playing on this continent for maybe 5 or 6 hours. It was in a cave, still nothing from buildings. Cave rescue is interesting, I like the vertical nature of it instead of just plowing through halls. The NPC only had 31 hp though. Not sure if that's intended. Continent tier is still 1. I made it out with her though. Just barely, she had only 3 HP when we got to the door. I think I got incredibly lucky.

Just FYI, we're going to be making NPC missions specifically a vastly easier to find thing in the next version; their being mixed in with regular secret missions was going to be an increasing problem.

[x4000]

I'll start off by saying this is both hypothetical and an edge case but...

I have just come across a room in a desert building which, had I not had at least a fairly good jump power increase (you would need about a 25% height increase), would have contained an inescapable pit and further a portion of the room would have been unreachable.

What makes this an edge case is I play on "I am already the guy" so this only occurred because of the random chance of platform choice, indeed there was an identical but escapable pit next to the inescapable one. The difference was one had a few ladders left in the entrance and the other didn't.

Now, the issue as i see it, was not that the platforms were gone, but that the players has no way of replacing them, player placed wooden platforms are far too large to fit in the gaps in buildings. With the way it stands the hardest difficulty runs a risk of being about having the correct powers, rather than about skill or patience. Obviously the argument could be made that by playing on the hardest platforming difficulty the player should be paying more attention to the escapability of holes but this case would have been pretty hard to judge before hand.

I've been contemplating not messing with the ladders in buildings -- what are your thoughts?  I don't think it increases difficulty of platforming any to have those ones removed, I think it just makes things fiddly-er.  I think the platform removal should just be for undergrounds and exteriors.  And, well, I guess boss rooms.  So maybe it should be left the same after all.

But in that event, letting platforms be placed in narrow spaces, and just having them not expand beyond 40% size or whatever would work.  I think I could make that happen...

as a secondary point, is it possible to take the platforms that are hidden off the minimap? It lying to you is fairly unhelpful.

Yeah, I'm aware of that one, and a second bug with these, two.  Will be fixing this morning.

I think the notes are a bit vague but the point it is trying to get across is....

Previously you would be getting 1  spawner every 30 tiles, now you will be getting 1 spawner every 50 tiles.

To compensate for this somewhat the minimum has been made 2 spawners.

Yoink!  I just swapped out your explanation for mine in the release notes; yours is much clearer, thanks.

[Terraziel]

I've been contemplating not messing with the ladders in buildings -- what are your thoughts?  I don't think it increases difficulty of platforming any to have those ones removed, I think it just makes things fiddly-er.  I think the platform removal should just be for undergrounds and exteriors.  And, well, I guess boss rooms.  So maybe it should be left the same after all.

But in that event, letting platforms be placed in narrow spaces, and just having them not expand beyond 40% size or whatever would work.  I think I could make that happen...

I had considered suggesting leaving buildings alone as well, as it doesn't add a very much to exploring them, in a way it almost makes them feel less like buildings, if you could make it work so that boss rooms were still affected and normal rooms weren't that would probably be the best solution, if not the simplest.

[x4000]

Actually, detecting room types is super easy.

So, done:

* Platforms inside buildings are no longer removed based on the platforming difficulty, except in boss rooms.

[Penumbra]

There are some large rooms that make it really interesting. The uniform columns of platforms have always looked unnatural to me. I have found gaps in the little platform bridges over gaps that have forced me to pay much more attention than I was before.

Just not removing any is too broad to fix the smaller issue of inescapable locations. Smart positioning of my wooded platforms to let me into inaccessible places is great fun for me.

I would suggest removing a smaller percentage inside the long columns, and fixing the "can't put platforms inside small gaps" issue.

[x4000]

For now we are short on time, so going with quick fix.  But that's a great suggestion for post-1.0.

[Penumbra]

Fair enough. Spend your (what is it now, two and a half weeks?) remaining development time on whatever will make the first impression videos look the most compelling.

I think a visual representation of the wind on the world map would be much more worth the effort than some platforms 

[x4000]

Yep, cheers.

I'd also like to see a representation of wind on the map, but I'm not fully sure what that would look like.  Though.... actually, come to think of it I might have an idea.

[x4000]

Also, we're really trying to go for broke with content, too.  Right now we have 6 fully-designed new mission types (most with 2-3 variants) that we're working on.  Two are partway complete and might come out today.  And I'm still wanting to do even more mission types beyond just these in the next 2.5 weeks, too.

[x4000]

New one: http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,10010.0.html