AVWW Beta 0.584 "Supply Train Map " Released!

[TechSY730]

By the by -- the wind is the bigger overall problem (thematically speaking at the moment, but directly speaking, later) than the overlords.  And actually, the wind is the source of most monsters and the overlords themselves, and all sorts of other things that are bad.  If there's something wrong with the world, or dangerous, then probably the wind was involved.   That's only about 75% true, but that's pretty good.

EDIT: And all of this sort of information is stuff you'll have to piece together through the mysteries we're going to be introducing through beta phase 3.  Figuring out what the title means, and what all is going on with the world, is essentially a sort of series of side quests of things you can pick up.  The writing for a lot of that is coming along, but none of it is integrated into the game yet.

Wow, the server updated the quote as I was typing, but didn't bother putting back in the text I was writing.
Oh well, what you added in the edit addressed what I was going to ask.

But still, having it only in the in game "exposition" text is something a lot of people are going to miss, and it still feels like you are telling, not showing.
It needs to be clear (or at least clear once hinted) that the wind is the number one issue.

OK, it's fine if at first the overlords look like the number one issue. Such red herrings are common in these kinds of stories, and can add some nice plot twists.

However, you should be able to see that the wind was the real issue once you review the narrative previous to the reveal (or rather, previous to when you gathered enough information to peice together the reveal), and once you figure it out, you should be able to see gameplay wise why wind is the actual #1 issue (not #1 danger, but rather the #1 ultimate source of the danger), even if it seems to scream at first that overlords are.

Again, this comes down to the tricky arts of storytelling with forshadowing even with a red herring, showing the reveal possibly indirectly (via enough hints to come to a better conclusion), show how what could of been explained via the red herring can now be better explained via the reveal, and integrating that not only in narrative but also having the game (layout, objectives, and mechanics) reflect this "red herring but this new reveal can explain it better" but without changing the gameplay before and after the reveal. EDIT: And possibly some of the hints would be in game (mechanics, layout, etc), rather than all of them in narrative.
I only really know some of the goals in theory. I am not trained in how to implement these types of story considerations in an actual game. I don't envy your job of getting your story and gameplay integration down. But I'm sure you guys can pull it off.

[x4000]

I'm not going to begin to get into all of it, but suffice it to say that my wife and I are very much experienced writers.  She's got a degree in literature, I very nearly went for a degree in creative writing, and I have been inches from getting a literary agent on one out of the two novels that I've completed (out of 24 incomplete).  I've had professional editors go over my stuff with a red pen, and believe me there was a lot of red but I learned a lot.

I'm far from a perfect writer, but giving me basic writing advice is a little insulting.  Your assumption that it needs to be obvious that the wind is the #1 is entirely founded upon the belief that we're setting up a world that is meant to be clear from the start.  Uh... no.  You're meant to be thrown into an interesting world with lots of incongruities that you'd like to know more and figure out.  And you can find out more about these things (well, will be able to) through clues that will lead you to figuring out the answer, but which will never actually come right out and tell you the answer.

It's not "telling rather than showing," it's leaving clues for the player to piece things together for themselves if they want to know what's going on.  And it's intentionally leaving them clueless if they don't bother.  If someone chooses not to plumb the mysteries of the game's story, that doesn't particularly matter in terms of their enjoyment of what is going on.  If they think the title is an incongruity, so what, so long as they have a good time?

Suffice it to say, I have more formal training in the art of storytelling than I do in either programming or game design, and my wife has even more than I do (and she's the one writing the clues, in this case).

[TechSY730]

I'm not going to begin to get into all of it, but suffice it to say that my wife and I are very much experienced writers.  She's got a degree in literature, I very nearly went for a degree in creative writing, and I have been inches from getting a literary agent on one out of the two novels that I've completed (out of 24 incomplete).  I've had professional editors go over my stuff with a red pen, and believe me there was a lot of red but I learned a lot.

I'm far from a perfect writer, but giving me basic writing advice is a little insulting.  Your assumption that it needs to be obvious that the wind is the #1 is entirely founded upon the belief that we're setting up a world that is meant to be clear from the start.  Uh... no.  You're meant to be thrown into an interesting world with lots of incongruities that you'd like to know more and figure out.  And you can find out more about these things (well, will be able to) through clues that will lead you to figuring out the answer, but which will never actually come right out and tell you the answer.

It's not "telling rather than showing," it's leaving clues for the player to piece things together for themselves if they want to know what's going on.  And it's intentionally leaving them clueless if they don't bother.  If someone chooses not to plumb the mysteries of the game's story, that doesn't particularly matter in terms of their enjoyment of what is going on.  If they think the title is an incongruity, so what, so long as they have a good time?

Suffice it to say, I have more formal training in the art of storytelling than I do in either programming or game design, and my wife has even more than I do (and she's the one writing the clues, in this case).

Oops, sorry.
I didn't mean it like that.  I meant it in the way that I know there is a lot to consider, and I don't envy the amount of work it takes to get a nice story and game-play integration.
Sorry if I didn't make my intention clear.
EDIT: I think I even stated that I believe you guys can handle this, but again, I didn't really highlight that enough.
EDIT2: And I tried to make it clear in the explanation that I do not expect it to be obvious in the story the importance of wind, but if that is the case, it should become clearer as you delve into the mysteries of the game. But I see now that's you had planned all along.

[x4000]

It's not a worry, but we're being obscure on purpose.  This isn't meant to be a cracking good yarn where you have to know a lot of background in advance.  It's meant to be a strange but compelling world about which you know very little, but which you're able to learn more about via clues if you're motivated and smart (the clues won't spell it completely out, on the more important mysteries).

It's the difference between making a linear game story, novel story, or movie arc, and in making a game world that is just a place you can go, but where you can play detective if you wish.

[x4000]

New one: http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,9957.0.html

[HellishFiend]

Chris, I had no idea that you and the wife were such storytellers! At least, if I ever saw you mention it, I must have forgotten. That makes me even more excited to get deeper into the game and the lore within it, once it is all in place. I also agree with you that with a game like this, its best to leave figuring out the plot and lore as sort of an optional meta-game. Many of us may lament over those that dont get the same level of enjoyment out of a good story, but it's ultimately up to the individual what to do with the entertainment theyve paid for.

[x4000]

Yep, game design was always my hobby -- I wanted to be a novelist when I grew up, but failed after (so far) 15 years of trying in earnest.  Right now I'm on hiatus from serious novel writing, and just working on reading a lot and deconstructing other writers (and, of course, actually doing my job here).  I've basically learned that I would make a very poor writer-as-a-day-job, because I find first drafts to be so intensely painful to get out.  I much prefer the editing phases.

If you look back at the older entries of the "Games By Design" blog, you can actually see that the first year and a half of it or so are actually all about writing and literary agents, and my near brush with getting one of my books published.  Some of my other writer friends have gone on to be published, but I went on to indie games instead.  But I will return to novels someday!  Not as my main job, but as something I do occasionally on the side while I continue to make indie games as my main line of work.  Because, in the end, making games is something I feel I'm better at, and the actual creation process is substantially more fun and interesting.

[HellishFiend]

I know how you feel. It's probably rare that someones primary passion is also one in which they have sufficient endurance and marketable skill.
 The most important thing is that you have the entrepreneurial spirit!

That being said, I look forward to many enjoyable AI war novels. 

Kidding, though it would be cool!

[x4000]

Cheers.

[Penumbra]

I think it was mentioned before that the skull piles are just a place holder graphic for the monster spawn points. Could you give a hint as to what they actually are? Small wind storms?

[x4000]

I think it was mentioned before that the skull piles are just a place holder graphic for the monster spawn points. Could you give a hint as to what they actually are? Small wind storms?

I think it was mentioned before that they are in no way placeholder.

[Penumbra]

Oh... hmm... interesting. I'm sure it will all make sense later. 

[x4000]

There's not much to explain there.  "These things spawn monsters."  They're not particularly part of the lore, but that sort of skull-pile monster spawner is common in games from the 80s and early 90s, and that's what ours mimics.

[Penumbra]

Gotcha! Yeah. And then you mentioned the wind was creating the monsters. That made me think "No it isn't, monsters come from skull piles!" 

[x4000]

Ah, I see -- yeah, creating in the sense of... well, that gets into spoilers.