Author Topic: AVWW Beta 0.570/0.571 "The Guardian City" Released!  (Read 9414 times)

Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: AVWW Beta 0.570/0.571 "The Guardian City" Released!
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2012, 01:11:19 pm »
Two issues I've noticed in the current version. One: the performance is really awful in the settlement. Everywhere else is fine, but in the settlement my framerate gets really choppy.

I'm getting this too. 20ish fps in my settlement, solid 60 everywhere else. Running a radeon hd 5700 so I'm assuming it's not a graphical issue. Some kind of CPU bottleneck maybe?

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AVWW Beta 0.570/0.571 "The Guardian City" Released!
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2012, 01:20:04 pm »
Two issues I've noticed in the current version. One: the performance is really awful in the settlement. Everywhere else is fine, but in the settlement my framerate gets really choppy.

I'm getting this too. 20ish fps in my settlement, solid 60 everywhere else. Running a radeon hd 5700 so I'm assuming it's not a graphical issue. Some kind of CPU bottleneck maybe?
If you don't mind:

1) Start the game
2) Enter the settlement, wander around a bit and make sure the slowdown is still happening
3) Close the game
4) Go to your AVWW directory, AVWW_Data subdirectory, and look in output_log.txt do you see a ton (like, hundreds) of similar error messages; I caught one such problem yesterday but it's possible another crept up.  Some of the older debug code doesn't show anything in-game, so you don't realize it's tanking performance because it's writing to disk so frequently, pulling stack traces, etc.
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Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: AVWW Beta 0.570/0.571 "The Guardian City" Released!
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2012, 01:30:20 pm »
I have these two lines repeating for a long time:

Skipped rendering frame because GfxDevice is in invalid state (device lost)
 
(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/6bc5f79e0a4296d6/Runtime/Misc/Player.cpp Line: 1571)


Edit: Unrelated question, is Plasma Bolt still crafted from Opal + Walnut + Quartz, or did that change at some point? I've got at least one of each but I'm not getting the option to craft it.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2012, 01:37:12 pm by BobTheJanitor »

Offline KDR_11k

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Re: AVWW Beta 0.570/0.571 "The Guardian City" Released!
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2012, 02:35:50 pm »
It's three quartzs plus opal and walnut now but if you have those three things unlocked (and not just as leftovers from an earlier game version) the recipe should show up even before you actually collect any ingredients.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AVWW Beta 0.570/0.571 "The Guardian City" Released!
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2012, 02:37:52 pm »
I have these two lines repeating for a long time:

Skipped rendering frame because GfxDevice is in invalid state (device lost)
 
(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/6bc5f79e0a4296d6/Runtime/Misc/Player.cpp Line: 1571)
Thanks, that's one that's been around for a while and I think just relates to the window losing focus.  Not sure why it happens quite so often as it does, but it may be something that gets triggered multiple times per frame when it happens, etc.


Quote
Edit: Unrelated question, is Plasma Bolt still crafted from Opal + Walnut + Quartz, or did that change at some point? I've got at least one of each but I'm not getting the option to craft it.
Looking at the code, right now the first tier is unlocked by: WhiteOpal, Walnut, QuartzRock, QuartzRock, QuartzRock
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Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: AVWW Beta 0.570/0.571 "The Guardian City" Released!
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2012, 04:57:10 pm »
Looking at the code, right now the first tier is unlocked by: WhiteOpal, Walnut, QuartzRock, QuartzRock, QuartzRock

Turns out I hadn't unlocked quartz, even though I was still in possession of a piece from the old days. Got that unlocked now. Although it does leave me with a minor quibble. The game doesn't tell me that a new spell is now available now, which would be nice. If I hadn't set out to get Plasma Bolt, I'd have no idea. If I go to the crafting bench, it doesn't mention it under 'learn new spell.' Fair enough, I can't really learn it yet, I need to go hunt down a couple more quartz. But there's nothing else to really notify me of that. Equip known spell? Well if I go to Equip Any Known Spell, it's not listed there. Equip By Tier > Tier I... still doesn't list it. The only place I can find it is Equip By Category > Offensive Long Range, or Equip By Element > Light. So if I don't know already that I'd unlocked a new spell, I'd need to go to the crafting bench and go through every single category every time I unlock a new material to try and figure out if I've unlocked something that will give me a new spell or not. No bueno!

Completely unrelated subject: Fall damage. Let me go ahead and open what might be a can of worms and say that I'm not liking it very much. Even though it's currently (thankfully!) turned off, I see that damage come up a lot. Even 10% damage is a pretty weighty hit compared to what most enemies do to you. The first time I lose a health buff to this I can foresee much rage. And when you get into fighting bat bosses in some of the lower caves where platforms are few and far between, it's incredibly easy to slip up and find yourself standing over a long fall with your double jumps already used up and staring at the drop like Wile E. Coyote. It encourages a play style that seems to run counter to the rest of the game, which up until now seemed to encourage you to make high jumps off cliffs and hope there was a landing somewhere on the other side. It's also rather easy to hit the low end damage, even by just double jumping off of a small hill and landing next to it.

And taking damage by hitting water, while realistic, will probably be one of those things that gets reported as a bug endlessly. It just doesn't match the standard video game trope. Everyone just 'knows' that in a game you can fall out of low earth orbit and be perfectly safe as long as you land in 6 inches of water.

And also I feel like I shouldn't take damage when moving down the wood platform 'ladders'. They encourage downward movement by standing at the top and holding down until you hit the bottom. Having to drop, stop, drop again just doesn't feel right.

Whew. I think I'm done grumbling for now. I should mention that otherwise I'm enjoying the game a lot and playing much more than I had been over the last few months. I criticize because I love!

Offline KDR_11k

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Re: AVWW Beta 0.570/0.571 "The Guardian City" Released!
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2012, 05:58:10 pm »
And also I feel like I shouldn't take damage when moving down the wood platform 'ladders'. They encourage downward movement by standing at the top and holding down until you hit the bottom. Having to drop, stop, drop again just doesn't feel right.

Seconded, falling through a platform should reset your fall distance counter.

Offline TechSY730

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Re: AVWW Beta 0.570/0.571 "The Guardian City" Released!
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2012, 06:38:01 pm »

And taking damage by hitting water, while realistic, will probably be one of those things that gets reported as a bug endlessly. It just doesn't match the standard video game trope. Everyone just 'knows' that in a game you can fall out of low earth orbit and be perfectly safe as long as you land in 6 inches of water.


I wouldn't quite say that. In Skyrim you can take falling damage from hitting water, albeit, the damage is reduced some, but can still kill at sufficient fall distances.

When I first got killed by fall damage onto water, I wasn't annoyed, but impressed that the developers remembered that water reduces, not eliminates, "fall damage" in real life.
It also has the nice side effect of stopping all kinds of exploration abuses that would open up if water nullified fall damage.

Now if they could only do something about "climbing down an 80 degree slope and still keep a good footing" thing. It really feels silly just hugging the side of mountains while coming down and not taking any damage or losing too much movement control.

Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: AVWW Beta 0.570/0.571 "The Guardian City" Released!
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2012, 06:44:35 pm »
Yeah I'm sure we can all find some exceptions, there's a lot of games out there. Still in the vast majority (especially platformers) water-no-hurty is the rule of the day.

Offline TechSY730

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Re: AVWW Beta 0.570/0.571 "The Guardian City" Released!
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2012, 06:50:37 pm »
Still in the vast majority (especially platformers) water-no-hurty is the rule of the day.

Actually, when it comes to 2D-platformers, fall damage in general is the exception. I guess that's because there are only four ways to navigate, and thus vastly limiting down due to fall damage severely restricts the kind of stage patterns you can build, and strategies players can use. It's already hard enough getting up.

Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: AVWW Beta 0.570/0.571 "The Guardian City" Released!
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2012, 09:50:44 pm »
Another random question: Glyph Transplant, did this break at some point or am I using it wrong? I've never tried it before but I found a few and though I'd see how it worked, and it appears that it does not. I go up to an NPC in my settlement and their dialogue pops up and I use it and nothing happens. If I am away from them and try to use it, I get an error since no one is in range. Next to them, nothing. No error, doesn't use a scroll, just doesn't do anything.

Edit: I'm just full of questions tonight. Is there a good method to dealing with Fairies? Yes, yes, I know I'm months behind the times. They're not exactly hard per se, but since 5 of them spawn at a time and it takes a relatively long time to kill each one it just becomes a drawn out battle of attrition and I usually end up losing a health level every time I go up against a room of them.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2012, 10:10:21 pm by BobTheJanitor »

Offline Hyfrydle

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Re: AVWW Beta 0.570/0.571 "The Guardian City" Released!
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2012, 04:35:27 am »
Ah, right, we do need to adjust the power seeding for things like "not having a residential tower scroll kinda sucks" :)

Maybe a total refresh of all the missions after successful completion would help increase the chance of the required things spawning.

Offline KDR_11k

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Re: AVWW Beta 0.570/0.571 "The Guardian City" Released!
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2012, 06:18:26 am »
They're not exactly hard per se, but since 5 of them spawn at a time and it takes a relatively long time to kill each one it just becomes a drawn out battle of attrition and I usually end up losing a health level every time I go up against a room of them.

Losing health against a boss seems fine to me but yeah, they take so long to fight it just gets boring.

Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: AVWW Beta 0.570/0.571 "The Guardian City" Released!
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2012, 11:33:24 am »
Losing health against a boss seems fine to me but yeah, they take so long to fight it just gets boring.

Don't know if I'd feel right about losing a health buff against a mini boss every time. Boss rooms are pretty common when you're exploring caves. Every level you go down you can expect to run through about 2 boss rooms. That's going to get expensive on the health buffs pretty quick.

I don't mind losing HP if I'm doing it badly, that's fine. It's just that I feel like I'm doing everything as well as I can. The option seems to either be to stay back and dodge exploding sprites and draw the fight out for an extra 10 minutes or so, or just corner them, get up in their faces and take a few extra explosions in order to get a quicker kill. Either way seems to end with about the same amount of health lost. And then of course the room is full of lightning and water espers filling every crack with their projectiles. So that's not helping!

Offline Martyn van Buren

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Re: AVWW Beta 0.570/0.571 "The Guardian City" Released!
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2012, 07:13:46 pm »
Unorthodox suggestion --- maybe shot despawn time should go down when there's a really large number of shots onscreen? One side effect of procedural generation is that we get these unfortunate edge cases where every spot on the screen has about five hostile bullets in it. And that miasma fiasco I've posted in another thread.