Arcen Games

Games => A Valley Without Wind 1 & 2 => Topic started by: zoutzakje on March 02, 2012, 07:42:13 AM

Title: Are Enchant Charges allowed to spawn in such huge numbers?
Post by: zoutzakje on March 02, 2012, 07:42:13 AM
I just stumbled upon a building filled with maze rooms and there are EC's everywhere, already gaining me up to 3 enchants. I something off or is this normal for maze room buildings and am I just really lucky?
Title: Re: Are Enchant Charges allowed to spawn in such huge numbers?
Post by: Terraziel on March 02, 2012, 07:47:34 AM
Maze rooms are filled generally with enchant containers yes. And at a guess I'd say the building you went into was a pyramid because they seem to have lots of maze rooms.

 I think the logic is that if you want to put the effort into walking round them feel free, personally i find multiple maze rooms way too boring.
Title: Re: Are Enchant Charges allowed to spawn in such huge numbers?
Post by: zoutzakje on March 02, 2012, 08:03:22 AM
ahh I see. Well, me being a copmpletionist I must have have every location 100/100% so yeah... Gonna take me a looong time to get off the first continent.
Oh and it was a random ice age building I entered (perhaps slightly larger than usual).
Title: Re: Are Enchant Charges allowed to spawn in such huge numbers?
Post by: Bluddy on March 02, 2012, 08:15:11 AM
That reminds me -- I don't like pyramids too much. I'd much rather have only a few maze rooms and many passageways between them than the current scheme, which is many many maze rooms. I've decided not to venture into pyramids because of this.

Also, pyramids feel like they should have very scary guardians - some really fierce monsters - and they don't.
Title: Re: Are Enchant Charges allowed to spawn in such huge numbers?
Post by: Terraziel on March 02, 2012, 08:22:17 AM
I don't like pyramids either, but that is exactly the reason i don't mind them staying as they are. They are a building with sufficiently different a feel for me to have an opinion on them, which to me is a good thing.
Title: Re: Are Enchant Charges allowed to spawn in such huge numbers?
Post by: tigersfan on March 02, 2012, 08:32:11 AM
I don't like pyramids either, but that is exactly the reason i don't mind them staying as they are. They are a building with sufficiently different a feel for me to have an opinion on them, which to me is a good thing.

Agreed. I don't go in them, but I know others do, and you won't see me pushing for their removal.
Title: Re: Are Enchant Charges allowed to spawn in such huge numbers?
Post by: x4000 on March 02, 2012, 08:45:24 AM
That's kind of how I feel, too, in a lot of respects -- we need more extreme forms of buildings, rather than things trending towards the middle.  Sometimes that might mean "one pyramid is enough for me, thanks!" for quite a long while.  But then again if you want to grind enchants... where better to go.

I'm not crazy about actually exploring pyramids myself, either, for the record.  But just as a general design rule, for buildings that are optional I don't think it necessarily should be the case that each one is fun to explore to 100% completion; given that it's not really possible to explore to 100% completion in a given region in the first place (caves going down infinitely, and all that).

I'm not sure about this.  I just remember some commentary way back when about buildings from players, when I was polling on them prior to the private alpha even.  And players essentially told me "Generally we want buildings to be small and satisfying, but throw a few ginormous ones in there for variety please."  So the two ginormous ones I chose to add were pyramids (which work one way), and the military industrial buildings in the thawing ice age (which work a different way, and one that I much prefer in general).
Title: Re: Are Enchant Charges allowed to spawn in such huge numbers?
Post by: Bluddy on March 02, 2012, 09:03:38 AM
I don't know if it's a good idea to have a building that's genuinely annoying, which is how I feel about pyramids. I think there are too many mazes right next to each other. I don't mind a building being really really deep, and having a maze, then many branches, then a maze, etc. This way I can stop exploring when I want to. One maze right next to another is really overwhelming and discouraging IMO.

However, I also think the feel of the pyramids is off. It taps into the historical/fantasy concept of the pyramid (and the outside graphic is very evocative), without delivering on the premise. The insides are bright instead of being suffocatingly dark. There should be tons of traps (which the game doesn't really have at the moment). Enemies should be strong, plentiful, and preferably scary (mummies, ghosts would be best). If the pyramid is this great place to raid, but additionally one that may very well kill you, I think that really balances out the risk vs reward.

Also, going deeper into the pyramid could offer you greater rewards (of some sort) but at the cost of facing a higher tier of enemies -- much like the caves.

Title: Re: Are Enchant Charges allowed to spawn in such huge numbers?
Post by: x4000 on March 02, 2012, 09:08:33 AM
Could well be -- stuff like that is stuff I'd like to address, but to be frank I think in the next three weeks there are much larger targets.  Namely spells, enemies -- traps, as you say -- mission types, guardian powers, enchants, and a few mechancial fixes.

That's really my focus, and the fact that pyramids have too many mazes and could include some cool new progression mechanic, while cool, is something for post-1.0 simply due to time constraints.  What you're describing does sound interesting and mantis-worthy, and it's certainly possible to do.  It would just take at least half a day to really get working right, and that's half a day I think is better spent elsewhere in the really short term.
Title: Re: Are Enchant Charges allowed to spawn in such huge numbers?
Post by: Bluddy on March 02, 2012, 09:39:41 AM
Sure I'll add it to Mantis. I definitely agree that this isn't a high priority before 1.0.
Title: Re: Are Enchant Charges allowed to spawn in such huge numbers?
Post by: Terraziel on March 02, 2012, 09:54:54 AM
I do have to say that pyramids could do with having their lights turned off, ironically pyramids are one the brightest forms of building as it stands.
Title: Re: Are Enchant Charges allowed to spawn in such huge numbers?
Post by: x4000 on March 02, 2012, 11:47:03 AM
Good point on the lights; that part is quick enough to fix, actually, so I'll take care of that.
Title: Re: Are Enchant Charges allowed to spawn in such huge numbers?
Post by: BobTheJanitor on March 02, 2012, 12:43:27 PM
Pitch black can be so samey though. Would it be possible to have random holes in walls that let in outside light from time to time? Not enough to rely on, just for variety.
Title: Re: Are Enchant Charges allowed to spawn in such huge numbers?
Post by: x4000 on March 02, 2012, 12:45:00 PM
That's a good idea.
Title: Re: Are Enchant Charges allowed to spawn in such huge numbers?
Post by: zebramatt on March 02, 2012, 01:49:39 PM
Pitch black can be so samey though. Would it be possible to have random holes in walls that let in outside light from time to time? Not enough to rely on, just for variety.

That's an AMAZING idea. I'd be up for this in buildings in general, in addition to windows. Bits of worn or damaged wall with a little light diffusing through, maybe some subtle paralax in the background. Really give buildings the feeling of being left to the elements. Especially in the flats or snowstorm regions. Ash or snow blowing in, all that. Although now all that sounds like waaaaay after v1.0! Whoops.
Title: Re: Are Enchant Charges allowed to spawn in such huge numbers?
Post by: Penumbra on March 02, 2012, 02:31:35 PM
Also, since these holes in the wall are spaces that cannot have platforms, it will change up where the player is allowed to go.
Title: Re: Are Enchant Charges allowed to spawn in such huge numbers?
Post by: x4000 on March 02, 2012, 02:36:31 PM
Pitch black can be so samey though. Would it be possible to have random holes in walls that let in outside light from time to time? Not enough to rely on, just for variety.

That's an AMAZING idea. I'd be up for this in buildings in general, in addition to windows. Bits of worn or damaged wall with a little light diffusing through, maybe some subtle paralax in the background. Really give buildings the feeling of being left to the elements. Especially in the flats or snowstorm regions. Ash or snow blowing in, all that. Although now all that sounds like waaaaay after v1.0! Whoops.

Yup, yup, and yup. ;)
Title: Re: Are Enchant Charges allowed to spawn in such huge numbers?
Post by: KDR_11k on March 02, 2012, 03:10:21 PM
I'm not really happy with the way maze rooms are now (large and samey and enemies tend to cluster at the bottom) but I can't really think of a way to fix them.

Perhaps they could have doors that prevent monsters from moving too far from their spawn location, shoot the door to open it. Maybe doors could completely prevent you from seeing what's on the other side, any area that's not connected to the area you have explored except by closed doors cannot receive light or be revealed on the minimap...
Title: Re: Are Enchant Charges allowed to spawn in such huge numbers?
Post by: BobTheJanitor on March 02, 2012, 03:50:08 PM
I'm not really happy with the way maze rooms are now (large and samey and enemies tend to cluster at the bottom) but I can't really think of a way to fix them.

I had one idea that I posted a little while ago: http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=5937
Title: Re: Are Enchant Charges allowed to spawn in such huge numbers?
Post by: x4000 on March 02, 2012, 04:06:24 PM
By the by, the "monsters cluster at the bottom" thing is more of a problem in general, and something we're going to be addressing.