Anachronism missions...... worse than before?

[Misery]

Ok, so, I understand....... sort of...... ok, not really...... why these were changed.   Killing the wrong thing made you restart the mission.   Frankly, I dont think that was all that bad..... it took all of 2 seconds to restart..... but whatever, that was the reason, right?

When you think about it, that seriously isnt THAT big of a penalty.  You still have your character, you didn't lose anything, and if you didn't wanna do it again, you could just leave.


Fast forward to the way they are now.

The "small penalty" only applies at LOW TIERS.   Why?

Because at HIGH tiers, when you've got powerful attacks, you can UTTERLY DESTROY YOURSELF simply because some damn rhino drops out of nowhere and crashes into the ONE bolt you just fired at something else.  Just had that happen.   A single missed shot due to an enemy that literally just fell offa something high up, and INSTANT DEATH.    That's a 10-upgrade character gone because of ONE bolt that *I* fired.

And had PLENTY of other times where I've come close to it (while using weaker attacks).


Normally, I actually like these missions, but it seems like doing them at tier 4 or 5 is a *really* bad idea.


There's also the problem with ground foes that needs to be looked at;  I've had to occaisionally restart these because, say, a Dust Storm (which I need to shoot) spawns right in the center of a heap of robots (which will KILL ME INSTANTLY if I shoot) on a small platform.   Too many ground foes can easily make one of these literally unbeatable, depending on how and where they appear.




This isnt as much of a complaint from me as I had with the JtP missions;  I like the idea of these (whereas THOSE I refuse to even do), but definitely thinking now that they were better the way they were before......


Any thoughts?

[khadgar]

You're right on all counts, the stronger you are the harder these missions are. Here is what I have come up with:

*Use fire flare if you're unsure about an enemy. It does trivial damage, so the reflect won't hurt.
*Use shields when shooting at a right enemy in a cluster of wrong enemies.
*Get to the bottom of the mission ASAP, so you can pick off rhinos and dust storms quickly, or as the case may be, everything BUT rhinos and dust storms, which eventually end up there.
*Use projectile speed enchantments as much as you can. The goal is accuracy, not sheer firepower. A stray shot might hurt, but 5 stray shots can kill.
*Don't do anachronism missions in the grassland, because rhinos are a pain in the ass to NOT kill.

[LintMan]

I agree also, but would also suggest:

- scale the self-damage done to the player down a bit.   Besides surprise monsters taking a stray shot, there are also times where monsters cluster and pace tightly together in a small area and it becomes difficult to shoot, say, the dust storm while not shooting the 3 skelebots standing on top of/next to it.
- one victory is achieved, let the players kill the rest of the monsters  if they want, so it's easier to clear out the ones in your way as you find your way to the exit.  That's how it worked before the change.

[Toll]

Simple solution (if it doesn't work like this already): Apply the standard damage resist to these attacks. At tier five, I think that's an 80% reduction.

[Steffe]

- one victory is achieved, let the players kill the rest of the monsters  if they want, so it's easier to clear out the ones in your way as you find your way to the exit.  That's how it worked before the change.

Still works like that for me (running 1.007 though).

[x4000]

FYI -- I'm not happy with the damage reflection mechanic either.  It's on my list to make it so that when you attack the wrong kind of monster, instead a second monster spawns.  That's a lot less damaging while still getting the point across.

[Penumbra]

FYI -- I'm not happy with the damage reflection mechanic either.  It's on my list to make it so that when you attack the wrong kind of monster, instead a second monster spawns.  That's a lot less damaging while still getting the point across.

That's awesome! I know I've had needed monsters on the other side of Skelebots and whatnot in narrow corridors. Being able to kill a few, at the expense of extra monsters sounds great!.

[LintMan]

FYI -- I'm not happy with the damage reflection mechanic either.  It's on my list to make it so that when you attack the wrong kind of monster, instead a second monster spawns.  That's a lot less damaging while still getting the point across.

That's awesome! I know I've had needed monsters on the other side of Skelebots and whatnot in narrow corridors. Being able to kill a few, at the expense of extra monsters sounds great!.

Unless the new ones spawn in place right where the original is - then there'd just be even more in your way!

[x4000]

FYI -- I'm not happy with the damage reflection mechanic either.  It's on my list to make it so that when you attack the wrong kind of monster, instead a second monster spawns.  That's a lot less damaging while still getting the point across.

That's awesome! I know I've had needed monsters on the other side of Skelebots and whatnot in narrow corridors. Being able to kill a few, at the expense of extra monsters sounds great!.

Well, the intent would actually be that you couldn't damage the non-anachronistic monster.  But now that you mention it, making it so that you could damage them but then two new monsters pop out somewhere at random would perhaps be more flexible.  Perhaps too much so?

[Penumbra]

FYI -- I'm not happy with the damage reflection mechanic either.  It's on my list to make it so that when you attack the wrong kind of monster, instead a second monster spawns.  That's a lot less damaging while still getting the point across.

That's awesome! I know I've had needed monsters on the other side of Skelebots and whatnot in narrow corridors. Being able to kill a few, at the expense of extra monsters sounds great!.

Well, the intent would actually be that you couldn't damage the non-anachronistic monster.  But now that you mention it, making it so that you could damage them but then two new monsters pop out somewhere at random would perhaps be more flexible.  Perhaps too much so?

What if it's only when they die? Then, you get no feed back on the partial hits, so missing a little is not penalized. Then, when you kill the wrong type of enemy, 2 pop out somewhere else.

If it were based on the number of hits, then large spells would summon fewer monsters, and Ocean Worms could create dozens and dozens of monsters.

[x4000]

FYI -- I'm not happy with the damage reflection mechanic either.  It's on my list to make it so that when you attack the wrong kind of monster, instead a second monster spawns.  That's a lot less damaging while still getting the point across.

That's awesome! I know I've had needed monsters on the other side of Skelebots and whatnot in narrow corridors. Being able to kill a few, at the expense of extra monsters sounds great!.

Well, the intent would actually be that you couldn't damage the non-anachronistic monster.  But now that you mention it, making it so that you could damage them but then two new monsters pop out somewhere at random would perhaps be more flexible.  Perhaps too much so?

What if it's only when they die? Then, you get no feed back on the partial hits, so missing a little is not penalized. Then, when you kill the wrong type of enemy, 2 pop out somewhere else.

If it were based on the number of hits, then large spells would summon fewer monsters, and Ocean Worms could create dozens and dozens of monsters.

Well, the original idea was:

- When a non-anachronistic enemy WOULD die, they instead stay at 1 health and a new random enemy pops directly out of them where they are (could be anachronistic or not).

But it sounds like the new idea could be:

- When a non-anachronistic enemy is killed, two random enemies pop out somewhere random in the level (could be anachronistic or not).

[Hyfrydle]

This is fine as long you know you've taken down a non-anachronistic enemy. Otherwise it would just cause confusion.

[Penumbra]

This is fine as long you know you've taken down a non-anachronistic enemy. Otherwise it would just cause confusion.

Could they die in a giant spinning vortex?

[Hyfrydle]

This is fine as long you know you've taken down a non-anachronistic enemy. Otherwise it would just cause confusion.

Could they die in a giant spinning vortex?

Yes the death animation been different would be cool and work well. Maybe a spinning vortex and two more enemies emerge.

[Penumbra]

Yes the death animation been different would be cool and work well. Maybe a spinning vortex and two more enemies emerge.

Emerge somewhere else! That part is very important.