An Update On The "A Valley Without Wind" Art Rework Project

[yllamana]

I'd like to see the spell effects entirely redone by the new studio. It'd keep the look of the game cohesive and they can likely make many improvements even though most of the effects are currently pretty nice.

[Aklyon]

I'm pretty sure Chris said at some point that the spell would be mostly unchanged, since they're made of particle effects.

[chemical_art]

I've seen it hinted at before, but any idea when you will decide if / how you will "relaunch" the game?

AI war got great reviews at the start, so despite the massive updates it has not needed a rebrand.

However, avww is hobbled by its at best lukewarm start to the masses.

A relaunch would allow a fresh new batch of reviews which honestly seems the only reason to do this massive art rework. Other wise people who see the game for the first time and google it will see the not so positive reviews. It won't matter the game has massively improved, it will still be stuck with its first impression, potentially including the older graphics. Most (myself included) don't go digging deep for a indie game, but rather just read the first few reviews. Not the best method, no, but it tends to be the most time efficient. Especially in a genre that has ton of games.

While Arcen can say "we have improved it lots since launch" the vast majority of games claim it to the point the claim is meaningless without specific knowledge of arcen. Those who know arcen have already decided whether or not to buy the game for the most part. Thus any attempts to broaden appeal must be to new players or those turned off the first time.

So, while I applaud the effort for new graphics, without a relaunch I feel like you are just sinking money. You can  make it so that the key for the first avww allows access to the second one*, thus not burn current players, but allow for new players to see a "new" avww.

*by second one I mean whatever term you call the relaunch ex: reloaded

[Wingflier]

As I said before, I think the new graphics style is fantastic.  You definitely want to sell AVWW with a new expansion or something, I agree with Chemical Art that it needs to be "relaunched" to get enough exposure.

Even if you reduced the price of the base game to $10 and the expansion to $5 (Chemical Art's idea), an expansion makes it more likely that reviewers will take another look at it.

Looking at an indie title called Star Ruler, whose developers took a similar approach of constantly building and revamping their game, they never were really able to change that initial perception they received from critics, even though the latest version is apparently completely different.  However, if they had released an expansion and "resold" their game, they could have gotten a lot more attention.

The expansion doesn't even have to add anything exciting.  Personally, if you added some kind of "impending danger" mechanic to the game, making it so that the player can lose, you would have already appealed to me.  The point is just to pique people's interest in the game again.

[keith.lamothe]

We've been doing a lot of internal formulation of a strategy to "relaunch", but while I think we might be able to alter distributor opinions I don't think there's anything we can do (short of calling it a literal sequel, which would have PR fallout in excess of the PR gain) to convince the big guys who slaughtered the metacritic score to take a second look.  I may be wrong, but from I know that simply isn't done even for big-name titles (excepting, perhaps, mmo's), let alone indie ones.

Other reviewers may take another look, but probably not the ones who really canned it.

[chemical_art]

If you say so Keith. I've just tried googling a dozen games and I get different reviews and ratings when I compare a base game to a expansion of said game. Granted they were largish games, but they did get new reviews, including metacritic.

[keith.lamothe]

If you say so Keith. I've just tried googling a dozen games and I get different reviews and ratings when I compare a base game to a expansion of said game. Granted they were largish games, but they did get new reviews, including metacritic.

Perhaps I'm being overly pessimistic

[chemical_art]

If you say so Keith. I've just tried googling a dozen games and I get different reviews and ratings when I compare a base game to a expansion of said game. Granted they were largish games, but they did get new reviews, including metacritic.

Perhaps I'm being overly pessimistic

Even if smaller websites were the only ones to review the game expansion, on metacritic it will reflect, and the game in the indie audience at least will hear much better.

At the very least, its better then doing nothing at all.

You have to market it somehow.

[Wingflier]

Metacritic reviews expansions as their own entity.  It doesn't matter if the original game got a 50, all that matters is that the expansion gets a 90, because that's what the players will be looking at.  It also doesn't matter if the "mainstream" reviewers give it another chance.  A 90 is a 90, and I'm sure plenty of smaller reviewer sites will give it a second shot.

Also, on Steam you've got the advertisement of the new expansion under "Featured Items" at some point, so people get to take another look at it anytime they visit the store.  This won't happen if you simply launch a new version.

As I said, the new expansion doesn't have to feature anything amazing.  Add a few new songs, a couple new stage types, some new features ("death mode" *hint hint*), and a NEWWWW OVEERRRLORRDDDD.  Heck, I even like Chemical Art's idea of keeping the old graphics as an option and calling it "Retro" style.  Nobody will actually use it, but it gives the illusion of choice.

Marketing schemes can be an ugly process, but it's the nature of the beast.  It's not enough to make a good game, you have to CONVINCE everyone it's good.

[Aklyon]

TB sometimes does updates for games he's done a wtf is of that had some major improvement, like Starfarer's partially-completed campaign mode. You guys have added plenty of stuff, and probably more after the art is finished, so you could see about that maybe.

[keith.lamothe]

I should add that my opinion doesn't reflect the opinion of Chris or anyone else working at Arcen

[chemical_art]

Off to work, one other thought:

If you simply release this as a patch rather then something greater, you will get the same amount of press that you would all your previous patches received. It won't really matter that it is graphics. I say this from observing other games and review sites.

[keith.lamothe]

If you simply release this as a patch rather then something greater, you will get the same amount of press that you would all your previous patches received. It won't really matter that it is graphics. I say this from observing other games and review sites.

Oh, of course.

When AIW 2.0 came out, that prompted a lot of important re-evaluation.  I dunno if it did much to reviews themselves, though.

[cupogoodness]

Regardless of how we go about marketing the art upgrade, it will be marketed to the fullest extent we're able to (within reason, without being annoying, being savvy with what's going on at that time, etc.). I don't want anyone getting the impression that we're just going launch this quietly and not make every attempt to get this into the hands of the media.

Getting press coverage is important during announcement/launch times for sure, and while I'm hoping for plenty of it, what's really going to make or break us (in my mind) is word of mouth from players to potential players. More critically, how long that's sustained after the art update hits. Of course that nearly always comes with a combination of positive press coverage, but that often falls into place because of the word of mouth; as opposed to both of them coinciding with one another, or even the other way around where press coverage comes ahead of player word of mouth (which happens much more frequently with AAA titles, since the people behind them have the money to make that happen).

Anyway, the art update is more or less for all the potential players (readers/commenters coming from sites that have covered us, discussion in outside forums, etc.) that have made it clear the graphics are a barrier. If we get word of mouth about the update catching some of these guys early enough, and if it's something that really makes a difference to them, I think they too will pass the word on. If players end up sustaining the conversation that's a general tip off to press that this is something awesome that requires its attention.

Which is really the most encouraging thing here heading into these uncertain times for the game, all of us on the team and a vast majority of our community believes in the game. We know it's a good product with even better potential if we're able to continue on it. Without that belief in what your marketing, you're already fighting a losing battle. Thankfully that's never been a concern of mine with any of our games/products. Makes the marketing/PR stuff so much more bearable for me.

[Misery]

Regardless of how we go about marketing the art upgrade, it will be marketed to the fullest extent we're able to (within reason, without being annoying, being savvy with what's going on at that time, etc.). I don't want anyone getting the impression that we're just going launch this quietly and not make every attempt to get this into the hands of the media.

Getting press coverage is important during announcement/launch times for sure, and while I'm hoping for plenty of it, what's really going to make or break us (in my mind) is word of mouth from players to potential players. More critically, how long that's sustained after the art update hits. Of course that nearly always comes with a combination of positive press coverage, but that often falls into place because of the word of mouth; as opposed to both of them coinciding with one another, or even the other way around where press coverage comes ahead of player word of mouth (which happens much more frequently with AAA titles, since the people behind them have the money to do make that happen).

Anyway, the art update is more or less for all the potential players (readers/commenters coming from sites that have covered us, discussion in outside forums, etc.) that have made it clear the graphics are a barrier. If we get word of mouth about the update catching some of these guys early enough, and if it's something that really makes a difference to them, I think they too will pass the word on. If players end up sustaining the conversation that's a general tip off to press that this is something awesome that requires its attention.

Which is really the most encouraging thing here heading into these uncertain times for the game, all of us on the team and a vast majority of our community believes in the game. We know it's a good product with even better potential if we're able to continue on it. Without that belief in what your marketing, you're already fighting a losing battle. Thankfully that's never been a concern of mine with any of our games/products. Makes the marketing/PR stuff so much more bearable for me.

Not to mention that, if I recall correctly, the game's...... er...... what is the term..... "conversion rate" is it?  Well, I seem to recall one of you saying that that number/percentage/whatever was pretty high with this one.   Players actually TRYING the game have a tendancy to then stick with it.

And it seemed like the art was the one and possibly only thing that was really keeping people from trying it.

Despite my usual negative nature, I'm actually pretty confident about this whole thing.  I've played it enough to know that you guys found a winning formula with this one.   I cant imagine that a game as good and unique as this one, with it's one main negative point removed, WONT start selling better.

.....and it also helps that freaking Diablo is out of the way now.   Yeesh, what a mess that made.

Though, there IS Torchlight 2 later....