Author Topic: Alternative ways of using multiple rows.  (Read 4219 times)

Offline zebramatt

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Re: Alternative ways of using multiple rows.
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2012, 11:35:51 AM »
I wonder if there might be any distance in allowing keybinds to be assigned via the existing full spellbook interface, via an innocuous little button in the corner or some such?

Then you don't need to individually list EVERY spell in the bindings - just those which have been set. That might be a little incongruous, mind you, but it seems intuitive on the surface.

Offline x4000

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Re: Alternative ways of using multiple rows.
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2012, 11:40:27 AM »
I wonder if there might be any distance in allowing keybinds to be assigned via the existing full spellbook interface, via an innocuous little button in the corner or some such?

Then you don't need to individually list EVERY spell in the bindings - just those which have been set. That might be a little incongruous, mind you, but it seems intuitive on the surface.

Something like that could be interesting to explore post-1.0, but it would require quite a bit of rejiggering on our whole keybind handling system.  Or, well, close to an entire rewrite (which I wouldn't consider) unless we could figure out something clever, to be more accurate.  I just don't have time to figure out the "something more clever" for that one at this point, or to deal with the new bugs that would result from a change like that.
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: Alternative ways of using multiple rows.
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2012, 11:45:45 AM »
I think allowing for key-binds of the most "important" logistics actions would be a good compromise. I would certainly use that.

Offline Penumbra

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Re: Alternative ways of using multiple rows.
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2012, 12:20:53 PM »
I wonder if there might be any distance in allowing keybinds to be assigned via the existing full spellbook interface, via an innocuous little button in the corner or some such?

Then you don't need to individually list EVERY spell in the bindings - just those which have been set. That might be a little incongruous, mind you, but it seems intuitive on the surface.

Something like that could be interesting to explore post-1.0, but it would require quite a bit of rejiggering on our whole keybind handling system.  Or, well, close to an entire rewrite (which I wouldn't consider) unless we could figure out something clever, to be more accurate.  I just don't have time to figure out the "something more clever" for that one at this point, or to deal with the new bugs that would result from a change like that.

I think the beauty of key bindings representing inventory slots instead of specific skills is actually really great. Being able to change which button does what, just by rearranging your skill bars is an amazing feature. Once you finished with binding things (which is never a really easy task, unless you let the user also do it from the inventory screen, by like pressing a button while mousing over... ok, nevermind :) ) you need never go back to that interface. If, later, the skill slots had their individual bindings printed on them, the entirety of swapping could be handled in the same interface easily and intuitively.

Bind to slot, slot to skill is a really nice indirection. 

Offline x4000

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Re: Alternative ways of using multiple rows.
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2012, 12:42:14 PM »
Bind to slot, slot to skill is a really nice indirection.

It is, but you're missing out on what a whole bunch of other people (not you) keep bugging me about: ways to basically mirror wooden platforms in multiple ability bars.  They want wood platforms always on the same key, but to otherwise be able to rotate the rest of their spells through their bars.  So in other words, they want a few key spells pinned, and the rest of them handled with the handy indirection.

When Keith was saying that a lot of other folks wouldn't be happy with the sort of bindings you were asking for, I imagine he had those folks in mind (I sure did).  For them, doing the direct-access keybinds for certain key spells is really handy.  And it would somewhat meet your needs as well as being the easiest possible way to do this in the short-term, I think, which is a double bonus. 

That's why I said it wasn't really a replacement for what you were asking for, but it's also something that's needed.
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Offline Penumbra

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Re: Alternative ways of using multiple rows.
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2012, 12:52:47 PM »
Yep! These are great. To stop the "always needing to add more,"  can you make a generic interface that is automatically updated when you add new spells? Not so much for the skill interface, but the thing zebramatt said would make it simpler on you in the long run if it were just auto-generated in the key-binding interface.

Comes down to which is less code. Custom code per spell as needed, or a "whatever is available" once and done.

Offline Bluddy

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Re: Alternative ways of using multiple rows.
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2012, 12:57:48 PM »
How about having a lock symbol under every ability on the toolbar? Clicking this lock will prevent that specific spell from rotating out. So you could place crates in a slot, then lock it, and when you rotate, crates won't get replaced. Once locked, a slot will continuously display the lock underneath it.

As a double-lock (to prevent accidentally clicking lock when you really wanted to click the spell) you could require shift to be pressed to reveal the lock buttons, or have a master lock button on the left that, when clicked, reveals the individual lock buttons.


Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Alternative ways of using multiple rows.
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2012, 12:58:11 PM »
Honestly, I think it would be less total effort (than having a handpicked list of abilities bound this way) to have a separate binding tab (to keep the existing ones from getting swamped) for all player-usable abilities, and adding the keybind is just a quick thing you do at the end of implementing a new spell... though I guess the determination of what is "player usable" is not easily automated.

But simply doing bindings for the other 90 slots in the normal inventory I think would be much more "once and done", less overall effort because it doesn't involve a new code path for triggering an ability, etc.  It would require some user education (basically, "if you use this, don't try to use it with rotation"), but I think it would work.
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Offline Penumbra

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Re: Alternative ways of using multiple rows.
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2012, 01:01:49 PM »
I just want more buttons. Whatever is easiest to implement and maintain for you guys.  :)

, "if you use this, don't try to use it with rotation")
A totally separate tab on the key-binding interface would remove it from accidental use. You could even have the tab only appear if rotate is turned off, or something.

Offline Professor Paul1290

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Re: Alternative ways of using multiple rows.
« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2012, 02:18:19 PM »
I don't know if this helps any, but I'll describe how I'm using spells right now.

The way I think of the spells right now is that I think of them as one of three categories:
A. Spells that need to be aimed and need to be fast. (projectiles in general)
B. Spells that need to be aimed but don't need to be fast. (Platforms and such)
C. Spells that don't need to be aimed. (Rhino, Area of effect around the player, and so on)

"A" tends to go into the left half of my first row which is where my five mouse buttons are as well, and anything that doesn't fit tends to get swapped in and out of that half of the row as necessary.
"B" tends to go into the right half of the first row. I use the number keys with for these spells.
"C" tends to go anywhere else in the inventory. I usually open up the inventory and right click these because they don't need to be aimed anyway. (yes, I open up my inventory quite often  :P )

It tend not to rotate the rows to get to spells because I find that, at least for me, it's more prone to mistakes and fumbling.

Offline LintMan

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Re: Alternative ways of using multiple rows.
« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2012, 02:51:30 PM »
I'd like the ability to bind specific keys to specific spells, also.  A binding tab would be nice, but sounds like a fair bit of UI work.  How about this for a simpler implementation:

Use car stereo preset keys as a model:
1.  Select the spell you want to bind.
2.  Press and hold the key you wish to bind it to.  Keys already mapped in the settings cannot be overridden by these binds.
3. After 3-5 seconds you see a message that spell <x> is now bound to key <y>.

I'd be happy with this even if there was no way to view a list of these binds later.   Just press the keys and find out!