Author Topic: A Valley Without Wind's Switch To Side View -- The Big Picture  (Read 48812 times)

Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: A Valley Without Wind's Switch To Side View -- The Big Picture
« Reply #90 on: June 21, 2011, 12:54:27 pm »
Preaching to the choir: http://christophermpark.blogspot.com/2009/07/thoughts-on-piracy-and-drm.html

Derailing your own topic, eh? I like the cut of your jib.

Besides your mentioned MMO model, which does work pretty well for what it is, there's also the TF2 model of preventing piracy. I saw an article on it once, that I'm sure I'll never find again, that mentioned that the hat store does a very good job of circumventing pirates. Sure, you can pirate TF2, but you won't have access to the store to be able to get all the fancy hats or new weapons or other toys any time you want. I don't recall now if pirates are also unable to get hats/weapons through drops, but it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't. I'm pretty sure your TF2 inventory is stored on the steam cloud, and equally sure that a pirated copy wouldn't be connecting back to that.

So the obvious answer is to put a hat on a bomber, and then people will stop pirating AI War. No? OK maybe not...

Offline x4000

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Re: A Valley Without Wind's Switch To Side View -- The Big Picture
« Reply #91 on: June 21, 2011, 12:59:27 pm »
Hahaha. :)
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Offline KingIsaacLinksr

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Re: A Valley Without Wind's Switch To Side View -- The Big Picture
« Reply #92 on: June 21, 2011, 01:53:10 pm »
Indie games are 10X better than AAA developers just because of DRM-related crap.  It is infuriating how difficult those games can be just to activate the game sometimes, forget playing it.  Really lessens the experience of what should be a fun-past time with all this DRM/Social-networking-that-the-company-made-because-they-believe-they-are-cool/whatever-other-server-things-we-believe-you-should-connect-to. 

With Indie, I get a game. 
With AAA, I get a server. 

Guess which is more preferable.  :)

King
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Offline Nalgas

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Re: A Valley Without Wind's Switch To Side View -- The Big Picture
« Reply #93 on: June 21, 2011, 02:14:01 pm »
Really lessens the experience of what should be a fun-past time with all this DRM/Social-networking-that-the-company-made-because-they-believe-they-are-cool/whatever-other-server-things-we-believe-you-should-connect-to.

Heh.  Funny you mention the social network crap.  I finally picked up Dragon Age: Origins on Steam a couple months ago when it was on sale.  I got the "Ultimate Edition" with all the DLC and everything because it was only a few bucks extra, and it turns out you have to activate it through an EA/BioWare social network account and link everything together and be signed in and type all these codes in by hand and hope you entered them in the right somewhat-ambiguously-labeled fields and that it's not having connection issues or doesn't just hate you for no particular reason or...  And then after all that, one of the most irritating and unexpected activation procedures I've ever run into (silly me thinking that it saying everything was included with the game meant I didn't have to go through all that crap), the game isn't even fun, and I got bored maybe a quarter of the way into it.

It also has some atrocious bug (or sloppy coding, not sure which) where it eats CPU cycles for no good reason for some people, maxing out multiple cores even while sitting there idle at the main menu screen.  It feels like what happens when something's trying to run at 40 hojillion fps just because it can when it's not limited, but v-sync is on.  I don't know if it spawns a few extra threads that just do while (1) {setCPUOnFire(true);} or what, but it's ridiculous, and it still runs at full speed even if I set the processor affinity to only two cores from the Task Manager...

Anyway, I think the moral of my story before I got sidetracked ranting was, "Yeah, what he said."  Heh.

Offline KingIsaacLinksr

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Re: A Valley Without Wind's Switch To Side View -- The Big Picture
« Reply #94 on: June 21, 2011, 02:19:20 pm »
Yeah, that EA connection is borderline on what I tolerate, and really, Mass Effect 3 is the last game I plan on tolerating with that connection.  After that...well, we will see.

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Offline Echo35

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Re: A Valley Without Wind's Switch To Side View -- The Big Picture
« Reply #95 on: June 21, 2011, 02:21:36 pm »
Indie games are 10X better than AAA developers just because of DRM-related crap.  It is infuriating how difficult those games can be just to activate the game sometimes, forget playing it.  Really lessens the experience of what should be a fun-past time with all this DRM/Social-networking-that-the-company-made-because-they-believe-they-are-cool/whatever-other-server-things-we-believe-you-should-connect-to. 

With Indie, I get a game. 
With AAA, I get a server. 

Guess which is more preferable.  :)

King

Server + the DRM you mentioned + badly programmed games + un fun games + yearly releases. I almost entirely play things from GoG or various indie games simply because they're more fun and accessible.

But anyway, I came here to post this. Not sure if anyone else did already or not, but RPS has picked up the update: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/06/21/radical-changes-for-a-valley-without-wind/

Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: A Valley Without Wind's Switch To Side View -- The Big Picture
« Reply #96 on: June 21, 2011, 02:22:32 pm »
Oh believe me, I hate all the dumb DRM that gets layered on top of games. Having to go through Steam I will accept, but that is because it has made itself so useful in other areas that I keep it running all the time anyway. But I completely understand the valid arguments against it. What really irks me is when a game is already through steam, but the publisher is too lazy to strip out GFWL or Securom or some other junk that's already in it. I still grudgingly accept it with games that I really want to play anyway, but I reserve my right to complain about it nonetheless. Some games, like Assassin's Creed for example, I have still avoided to this day simply because of how many horror stories I hear about the DRM.

I still can't find that article about Valve, but I remember that it made the point that if you keep a game updated and supported with new, free bells and whistles that only people with a valid copy of the game can have access to, you go a long way towards curbing piracy without upsetting your honest customers by imposing draconian DRM. Of course, a lot of that relies on the fact that they have Steam there acting as the doorman, so in reality they're still using DRM to determine who is and who is not an honest customer.

And for AI War to do something similar would be pretty difficult I suppose. Although I suppose it does have to do a 'call home' of sorts in order to download new updates. It would be nice if there were a way for it to determine if it was a valid copy before allowing new updates to apply, but then Arcen finds themselves in the position of trying to run their own DRM system... not much fun.

Piracy truly is a pain. I'll admit that I did some of my own back many years ago, before digital distribution became the norm. (Yes, I was bad, I apologize!) A lot of that had to do more with the convenience of not having to go out and track down a physical copy of the game. Now that I can easily buy it and download a game immediately, I don't have any reason to do otherwise. Music is the same way.

Offline Nalgas

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Re: A Valley Without Wind's Switch To Side View -- The Big Picture
« Reply #97 on: June 21, 2011, 02:33:02 pm »
Yeah, that EA connection is borderline on what I tolerate, and really, Mass Effect 3 is the last game I plan on tolerating with that connection.  After that...well, we will see.

That is actually well beyond what I'm willing to tolerate.  If I'd realized that it was involved, I wouldn't've gotten the game, or at least I would've only gotten the base game, assuming the base game is playable without it.  Is ME2 playable without going through that crap?  I have no interest in DA2 at all, but the first ME was at least kind of ok enough that I've been meaning to check out the second eventually.

Piracy truly is a pain. I'll admit that I did some of my own back many years ago, before digital distribution became the norm. (Yes, I was bad, I apologize!) A lot of that had to do more with the convenience of not having to go out and track down a physical copy of the game. Now that I can easily buy it and download a game immediately, I don't have any reason to do otherwise.

Partly it's the convenience, and partly it's the price.  The combination of being able to buy really good games for $2-20 without having to ever leave my computer immediately eliminated even the consideration of just downloading a copy of them from somewhere for me, even when unemployed.  Legitimate copies of games that are actually supported and don't have anything sketchy attached to them and that magically appear on your computer immediately and are nearly free in the grand scheme of things are really hard to argue with.  It's so convenient that I even go back and buy legitimate copies of stuff that I had...less legitimate copies of previously when I find them available.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: A Valley Without Wind's Switch To Side View -- The Big Picture
« Reply #98 on: June 21, 2011, 02:37:10 pm »
Is ME2 playable without going through that crap?

I... don't even remember, honestly.  I just picked it and ME up during the holiday steam sale for some ludicrously low price.  But I don't remember the DRM of ME2, I just remember it being an incredibly fun game and that blanked out any of the possible nonsense I went through getting it started.
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Offline KingIsaacLinksr

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Re: A Valley Without Wind's Switch To Side View -- The Big Picture
« Reply #99 on: June 21, 2011, 02:43:06 pm »
Is ME2 playable without going through that crap?

I... don't even remember, honestly.  I just picked it and ME up during the holiday steam sale for some ludicrously low price.  But I don't remember the DRM of ME2, I just remember it being an incredibly fun game and that blanked out any of the possible nonsense I went through getting it started.


Pretty much what Keith said, the connection borders what I tolerate but the game being that fun more than made up for it.  Companies like Ubisoft/Gameloft are under my never-buy-from list because of their version of DRM.  

I can tolerate Steam's DRM for two reasons: it provides a great service for buying games + social networking isn't that bad + the great deals and because it has an offline-mode which as far as I know works pretty well, though I don't test it too often.

The other DRMs simply have an online mode and that's it.  There is no benefit to having the DRM especially when you can pirate the game for free and not get any DRM tied into it.  
King
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011, 02:45:04 pm by KingIsaacLinksr »
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: A Valley Without Wind's Switch To Side View -- The Big Picture
« Reply #100 on: June 21, 2011, 02:46:15 pm »
Yea, I just view the steam situation as "I'm not paying to own a copy of the game, I'm paying for highly-reliable access to play the game, and that's why I'm paying so little".  But I'd have a much harder time paying $50 for a game that way.  5-10 is much easier to handle on those terms.
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Offline Nalgas

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Re: A Valley Without Wind's Switch To Side View -- The Big Picture
« Reply #101 on: June 21, 2011, 02:50:32 pm »
Yeah, that sums up my feelings on Steam and Ubisoft pretty well.

The comments on that RPS mini-article/post/whatever are as cranky as always.  Welcome to the Internet, I suppose.  It's sort of funny how many people are suddenly saying that they liked the old art style and perspective now that it's changed, though, when you couldn't find anyone saying that before yesterday if you tried.  Heh.

Offline x4000

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Re: A Valley Without Wind's Switch To Side View -- The Big Picture
« Reply #102 on: June 21, 2011, 02:53:08 pm »
It's sort of funny how many people are suddenly saying that they liked the old art style and perspective now that it's changed, though, when you couldn't find anyone saying that before yesterday if you tried.  Heh.

Yeah, tell me about it.  ::)
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: A Valley Without Wind's Switch To Side View -- The Big Picture
« Reply #103 on: June 21, 2011, 02:53:14 pm »
The RPS comments seem roughly 50% positive, which is high as I've ever seen them except in cases where the people who didn't like it appeared to not care enough to say anything.  Overall a pretty good result.

But yea, comment-threads in communities that don't know us (RPS is actually more reasonable than a lot of them) tend to remind me very much of:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

(start at 0:36, play til 1:10)
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Offline x4000

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Re: A Valley Without Wind's Switch To Side View -- The Big Picture
« Reply #104 on: June 21, 2011, 02:57:24 pm »
AI War's comment threads on RPS tended to be maybe 70% positive by my estimate, but I think that was partly because there were so many in-jokes thanks to Quinn needing iron that people enjoyed the idea of the game just for that, whether they had any real interest in the game itself or not.  And I think that strategy games get less coverage there, so there's less stuff lobbed at those that do.  My best guess, anyway.

AI War was also already finished, well reviewed, and well received by players who had logged dozens or more of hours on that game before it ever was seen at RPS.  So that might have something to do with it, too.
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