Author Topic: A Valley Without Wind's Switch To Side View -- The Big Picture  (Read 50124 times)

Offline x4000

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Re: A Valley Without Wind's Switch To Side View -- The Big Picture
« Reply #75 on: June 21, 2011, 10:27:16 am »
"Put some on the handle, I don't care!"

Yeah, classic onion. :)

In terms of the basic world interaction, that's kind of the least interesting thing going on there in AVWW.  Sure it's something we hope to do well and better than the next guy, but that's not where we're really competing for attention.  Enemies, spells, the macrogame, the actual worldbuilding... all that stuff's our bread and butter for this one.
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Offline Nalgas

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Re: A Valley Without Wind's Switch To Side View -- The Big Picture
« Reply #76 on: June 21, 2011, 10:29:01 am »
In terms of the basic world interaction, that's kind of the least interesting thing going on there in AVWW.

Yeah, bad word choice.  I really meant to say "movement" instead of "interaction", I suppose.

Offline x4000

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Re: A Valley Without Wind's Switch To Side View -- The Big Picture
« Reply #77 on: June 21, 2011, 10:39:41 am »
Well, sure, that's what I meant also.  Just moving around is about the least interesting thing happening.  It's more interesting now than it was when it was top-down (and movement consisted of "press the arrow key to move in the direction you want"), but still.  I don't think anyone plays Minecraft because they like how awesome it is to walk and jump.  I mean, that stuff has to "just work" and feel really good in order for a game to succeed, but it's in no way the core draw.
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Offline Nalgas

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Re: A Valley Without Wind's Switch To Side View -- The Big Picture
« Reply #78 on: June 21, 2011, 10:50:37 am »
I mean, that stuff has to "just work" and feel really good in order for a game to succeed, but it's in no way the core draw.

Usually.  There are exceptions, but they're mostly not anywhere near this genre, and a lot are hardly even really games.  I suppose you could argue that that's what things like the early Sonic games were all about, though.

Offline x4000

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Re: A Valley Without Wind's Switch To Side View -- The Big Picture
« Reply #79 on: June 21, 2011, 10:51:50 am »
Sure, that's true.  I also never had much affinity for Sonic. ;)
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Offline tigersfan

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Re: A Valley Without Wind's Switch To Side View -- The Big Picture
« Reply #80 on: June 21, 2011, 11:07:10 am »
Fair points, I'll continue to wait till I can play it before I make judgement.

Also, maybe this has been touched on somewhere else, if so, I apologize, but, am I safe in assuming that your DRM scheme will be the same as in your other games?

Offline x4000

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Re: A Valley Without Wind's Switch To Side View -- The Big Picture
« Reply #81 on: June 21, 2011, 11:10:03 am »
Yep, same DRMlessness as the others!  Internal license key check that doesn't talk to servers, etc.
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Offline tigersfan

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Re: A Valley Without Wind's Switch To Side View -- The Big Picture
« Reply #82 on: June 21, 2011, 11:25:11 am »
Yep, same DRMlessness as the others!  Internal license key check that doesn't talk to servers, etc.

Cool. While I do consider a license key to be DRM (but that's simply a debate of semantics), I also have absolutely zero issue with an internal one like yours. There are other small publishers (well, on in particular) that I've had long discussions with about how I won't buy their game as long as a server check is required in order to play. They dismissed me as a crazy loon in the end, but I'm really glad that you guys "get it" about DRM.

Offline x4000

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Re: A Valley Without Wind's Switch To Side View -- The Big Picture
« Reply #83 on: June 21, 2011, 11:29:14 am »
Oh yeah, we really don't believe in DRM.  The reason we have the license key check is a simple one: it lets us distribute the full game publicly, and it works in a demo fashion until the license key is entered.  One way of looking at things is that this is less DRM than having no license key check, because the full game is publicly archived everywhere and you're at no risk of losing that.  Hanging on to your license key is a lot simpler than hanging onto hundreds of megabytes of digital data.  For instance, if you lose World of Goo and there isn't a valid download link for you anymore, what do you do?

You're right that it's semantics, but that's why I don't view the shareware-style license key check as DRM.
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: A Valley Without Wind's Switch To Side View -- The Big Picture
« Reply #84 on: June 21, 2011, 11:34:41 am »
For 1 thing, I think the 3D/2D looking-down-at-an-angle type RPG games have been way overdone.  Though I realize AVWW isn't meant to be a Diablo 2 clone (and probably has almost nothing in common), it was the first thing I thought when I saw it.  I've played so many damn ARPGs in my life, with better graphics than AVWW has, and probably ever will have, that this aspect alone would have ruined my enjoyment of the game in many ways.
The action gameplay does kind of fall somewhere between Zelda and Diablo (or WoW), actually.  The 1-9 keys for using abilities is very WoW-ish, but the tactical use of environment & position and enemies being obstacles rather than "good stuff pinatas" is much more on the Zelda side.  It's definitely not hack&slash (even metaphorically using magic), much more in the adventure direction.

Anyway, yea, I'm a bit surprised by some of the folks (mostly elsewhere) who think this makes the game idea less distinctive: I think there's a lot more (recent) top-down-ish games with that kind of general gameplay than there are side-view ones.


Quote
I will admit that I find it hard to believe a 2D side-scrolling game can have as much potential for depth as a pseudo-3D type

I can understand that from a prima-facie standpoint, but really it goes the other way: in top-down you have 4 directions, all of which are fundamentally equal to each other.  In side-view you have 4 directions, 2 of which (left and right) are fundamentally equal and then 1 that's very different in that gravity pulls you away from it (up) and another that's very different in that gravity pulls you towards it (down).  That right there makes a huge difference in actual depth of gameplay and movement, etc.

As far as depth in the broader scope of explorable area: it's basically the same as before.  Actually, more:

Before in a single region (a single square on the world map) you would have had 2D "slices":

- 1 surface layer.
- 0-to-N underground layers
- Linked from the surface and underground layers, 0-to-N interiors each with 1-to-N "floor" layer.  

Now instead on a single region (a single square on the world map) you have:

- 1-N surface chunks (each generally partly above ground and partly below ground in surface tunnels), connected horizontally.
- 0-to-N underground chunks chained together (starting from the surface tunnels).
- Linked from the surface and underground chunks, 0-to-N interiors each with 1-to-N "floor" chunks each of which have 1-to-N "slices" (separate chunks) along the z-axis.


Anyway I think you already got the idea :)
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Offline tigersfan

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Re: A Valley Without Wind's Switch To Side View -- The Big Picture
« Reply #85 on: June 21, 2011, 11:35:45 am »
Oh yeah, we really don't believe in DRM.  The reason we have the license key check is a simple one: it lets us distribute the full game publicly, and it works in a demo fashion until the license key is entered.  One way of looking at things is that this is less DRM than having no license key check, because the full game is publicly archived everywhere and you're at no risk of losing that.  Hanging on to your license key is a lot simpler than hanging onto hundreds of megabytes of digital data.  For instance, if you lose World of Goo and there isn't a valid download link for you anymore, what do you do?

You're right that it's semantics, but that's why I don't view the shareware-style license key check as DRM.

Well, personally, I'm ok with the individual download links like WOG has, but, I have a decent amount of storage space both on my back up HD, and on mozy, so I'm willing to back up the download file. But, I can see why this might be a problem with others. My biggest complaint is games that have to "dial home" in order to work. As I told this other company, what happens if you go out of business? Why should I be locked out of my game now? This is especially true when, in the case of this publisher, the games cost $40 - $50!

Offline x4000

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Re: A Valley Without Wind's Switch To Side View -- The Big Picture
« Reply #86 on: June 21, 2011, 11:37:40 am »
Totally with you on the phone home stuff!
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Offline Nalgas

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Re: A Valley Without Wind's Switch To Side View -- The Big Picture
« Reply #87 on: June 21, 2011, 11:48:40 am »
My biggest complaint is games that have to "dial home" in order to work. As I told this other company, what happens if you go out of business? Why should I be locked out of my game now? This is especially true when, in the case of this publisher, the games cost $40 - $50!

I've passed on what are supposed to be some very good games because of crap like that.  I forget what it was, but I was looking at something that had been highly recommended to me, and while I'm fine with Steam for stuff that's on sale cheap enough, it had SecuROM and GFWL on top of that.  I don't care how good your game is; I'm not playing it even for free with all three of those layered on top of each other.  I don't want to encourage them to think it's somehow ok to do that or something.

Offline tigersfan

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Re: A Valley Without Wind's Switch To Side View -- The Big Picture
« Reply #88 on: June 21, 2011, 12:14:34 pm »
My biggest complaint is games that have to "dial home" in order to work. As I told this other company, what happens if you go out of business? Why should I be locked out of my game now? This is especially true when, in the case of this publisher, the games cost $40 - $50!

I've passed on what are supposed to be some very good games because of crap like that.  I forget what it was, but I was looking at something that had been highly recommended to me, and while I'm fine with Steam for stuff that's on sale cheap enough, it had SecuROM and GFWL on top of that.  I don't care how good your game is; I'm not playing it even for free with all three of those layered on top of each other.  I don't want to encourage them to think it's somehow ok to do that or something.

Agreed. I can take Steam as well as long as it's cheap (with one notable exception: I will buy Football Manager pretty much anytime), but, other than that, treat your paying customers like customers, not like the criminals you are trying to thwart.

Offline x4000

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