A Valley Without Wind's Switch To Side View -- The Big Picture

[Nalgas]

Heh, we're definitely not taking mechanical inspiration from any of those NES games in terms of things like that.   I remember the pain of those stairs all too well, too.  I also really enjoyed many of the DS/GBA Castlevania games, but nothing quite had the same impact on me from a thematic sense as Castlevania II.  What a horrible night to have a curse, and all that.

Yeah, I just wish I could still enjoy playing the old ones for what's good about them without getting frustrated.  I only put up with it at the time because the newer ones didn't exist yet and hadn't fixed all those problems, though.  Oh well.

[Cyborg]

you guys didn't like Belmont's quest? What's wrong with you? Seriously, I loved it, moreso than the newer additions.to each their own. During the night, it felt like you had to get serious and pay attention.

Okay, so now we just need a whip weapon. Think you guys could whip one up?

edit: I remember it taking multiple Saturday mornings before my parents woke up to earn enough money in that game to buy the Morning Star whip. I was so excited, I couldn't wait for nighttime.

[Echo35]

I agree with the Castlevania vibe, but as an open ended exploration type game, I'm not sure how I feel. Of course I can't honestly say anything until I can play it and see for myself, but at the moment I'm pretty unsure on it.

[x4000]

Heh, we're definitely not taking mechanical inspiration from any of those NES games in terms of things like that.   I remember the pain of those stairs all too well, too.  I also really enjoyed many of the DS/GBA Castlevania games, but nothing quite had the same impact on me from a thematic sense as Castlevania II.  What a horrible night to have a curse, and all that.

Yeah, I just wish I could still enjoy playing the old ones for what's good about them without getting frustrated.  I only put up with it at the time because the newer ones didn't exist yet and hadn't fixed all those problems, though.  Oh well.

I actually replayed the older ones recently and had a good time doing so, but they definitely aren't smooth like the new ones.  But I still routinely play NES era games, so it wasn't as big a shock as if I hadn't touched that console in 20 years or something.

Okay, so now we just need a whip weapon. Think you guys could whip one up?

Actually, one thing that I'll be talking about in the more detailed post about the game is weapons in general -- as in, we've cut them from the game.  Instead, we're focusing on an even wider variety of magic, including stuff that you can mix and match for more custom results, and including limited-use "scrolls" that you can craft from gem dust rather than full gems.  Oh, and traps, both magical and non-magical, are still a thing.  But physical weapons aren't really our strength in the animation department anyhow, and Terraria already has that locked up tight in the first place, so we're going with our strengths which are the particle animations and the magic and the crafting and slots systems.  Just getting the barest bit started on that, only like two dozen spells so far, but my hope is to have at least 100 distinct spells by 1.0, if not more, and not counting all the crazy variants that you can make via slotting multiple spells together, etc.

[x4000]

I agree with the Castlevania vibe, but as an open ended exploration type game, I'm not sure how I feel. Of course I can't honestly say anything until I can play it and see for myself, but at the moment I'm pretty unsure on it.

My more direct inspiration was honestly Zelda II, which is a favorite of mine despite its many flaws.  Few games have given me such a sense of exploration as that game did, and so it's one I've kept coming back to play my entire life despite some things that are really not very good about it.  I think it's possible to make something that has a great sense of exploration in an open-ended fashion in this way, I just also think it hasn't been done yet before that I've seen.  Which is all the more reason for us to do it, no?

[Nalgas]

I actually replayed the older ones recently and had a good time doing so, but they definitely aren't smooth like the new ones.  But I still routinely play NES era games, so it wasn't as big a shock as if I hadn't touched that console in 20 years or something.

Actually, part of what convinced me to spend a bit extra on the monitor I have, aside from the picture quality, is the plethora of inputs it has.  I can have everything from my current PC back through my NES hooked up to the same screen and just have to switch inputs to play anything on it, so I do still pull stuff like that out from time to time.  The only thing I need an adapter for is the VIC-20.  Heh.

[Echo35]

I agree with the Castlevania vibe, but as an open ended exploration type game, I'm not sure how I feel. Of course I can't honestly say anything until I can play it and see for myself, but at the moment I'm pretty unsure on it.

My more direct inspiration was honestly Zelda II, which is a favorite of mine despite its many flaws.  Few games have given me such a sense of exploration as that game did, and so it's one I've kept coming back to play my entire life despite some things that are really not very good about it.  I think it's possible to make something that has a great sense of exploration in an open-ended fashion in this way, I just also think it hasn't been done yet before that I've seen.  Which is all the more reason for us to do it, no?

That was my LEAST favorite Zelda, for that exact reason. It didn't belong as a side scrolling game.

[x4000]

I actually replayed the older ones recently and had a good time doing so, but they definitely aren't smooth like the new ones.  But I still routinely play NES era games, so it wasn't as big a shock as if I hadn't touched that console in 20 years or something.

Actually, part of what convinced me to spend a bit extra on the monitor I have, aside from the picture quality, is the plethora of inputs it has.  I can have everything from my current PC back through my NES hooked up to the same screen and just have to switch inputs to play anything on it, so I do still pull stuff like that out from time to time.  The only thing I need an adapter for is the VIC-20.  Heh.

Ah, very nice!  I still use my actual TV for that stuff.

I agree with the Castlevania vibe, but as an open ended exploration type game, I'm not sure how I feel. Of course I can't honestly say anything until I can play it and see for myself, but at the moment I'm pretty unsure on it.

My more direct inspiration was honestly Zelda II, which is a favorite of mine despite its many flaws.  Few games have given me such a sense of exploration as that game did, and so it's one I've kept coming back to play my entire life despite some things that are really not very good about it.  I think it's possible to make something that has a great sense of exploration in an open-ended fashion in this way, I just also think it hasn't been done yet before that I've seen.  Which is all the more reason for us to do it, no?

That was my LEAST favorite Zelda, for that exact reason. It didn't belong as a side scrolling game.

Heh.  Well, there's not much I can say to that.  At any rate, my view has always been that Zelda 2 had the kernels of some really excellent ideas, but it never really got to explore them fully because most players felt like you.  So the side scrolling exploration went to the Metroidvania subgenre, and aside from a few underground sections in Link's Awakening, Zelda went top-down-only until it went 3D.  And I'm fine with that, as far as Zelda goes, but I feel like there was a missed opportunity with Zelda 2.  There were some excellent ideas there, paired with some things that really didn't work as well, and a lot of babies got thrown out with that bath water IMO.  I'm not trying to make spiritual successor to Zelda 2 with this game, but it's one influence amongst many.

[Nalgas]

What's really weird about Zelda 2 (I didn't like it, either, and it's the only Zelda game I've played and didn't finish (not counting Majora's Mask, which I didn't finish because the emulator on the GC compilation disc was buggy)) is that despite having so many things wrong with it, it did have those interesting ideas that have appeared elsewhere in non-Zelda games since then, but it also introduced a ton of the Zelda backstory and mythology.  It's kind of funny how such a huge amount of the Zelda universe that everyone loves is straight from the game they all hate.

[x4000]

It's kind of funny how such a huge amount of the Zelda universe that everyone loves is straight from the game they all hate.

Yes indeed, it is really funny.  And I'll be the first to admit that Zelda 2 was the most frustrating game in the entire series.  One of the most frustrating I've ever played.  The combat was okay in parts but mostly was really fiddly, the difficulty was insane, the final dungeon was just absolutely crazy, the way that they set up things like death mountain was really mean, and boss battles were just at the extreme end of fiddly in most cases (timing jumps exactly right to swing your sword at just the right part of some boss's head).  It encouraged grinding, and most of the spells were lame, and the mechanics of choosing spells was clunky.  The lives system was a disaster, especially when considering the one-use-only life doll pickups that encouraged not saving once you needed to go to the great palace.  It was cheap with mechanics such as the tiny bubbles knocking you down into instant-death pits if you jumped wrong (among many others), and it had a lot of backtracking.  It also really had a strange progression in some ways, as things like the candle that you get in the first palace is useful for early gating, but otherwise doesn't really accomplish much longer-term in the game.  The inability to block thrown axes with your shield made some sections too hard, and the darknut fights were fun and frustrating to me at the same time because of the quick way the darknuts can move their shields.

And that's just the stuff I can think of off the top of my head that's wrong with that game.  So it might sound strange to say I love that game, but I do.  Mainly for the sense of exploration it was able to foster in me, despite the fact of the world being far smaller than what AVWW can offer.  Anyway...

[keith.lamothe]

Just getting the barest bit started on that, only like two dozen spells so far, but my hope is to have at least 100 distinct spells by 1.0, if not more, and not counting all the crazy variants that you can make via slotting multiple spells together, etc.

You're wanting to slot multiple spell gems into the same thing?  I don't think we've covered that in the design yet   Though what we do have planned certainly can make it feel like a different spell.

[x4000]

Just getting the barest bit started on that, only like two dozen spells so far, but my hope is to have at least 100 distinct spells by 1.0, if not more, and not counting all the crazy variants that you can make via slotting multiple spells together, etc.

You're wanting to slot multiple spell gems into the same thing?  I don't think we've covered that in the design yet   Though what we do have planned certainly can make it feel like a different spell.

Hmm, you had that working with the slotted swords at one point, anyhow.  One swing was making fireballs and lightning come out, as I recall.  Or was I crazy?

[keith.lamothe]

Hmm, you had that working with the slotted swords at one point, anyhow.  One swing was making fireballs and lightning come out, as I recall.  Or was I crazy?

It only did 1 base ability, but the charge animation looked a bit lightning-y.  Anyway, we can do multiple spell gems in a crest if we can figure out what it should do and how to balance it

[x4000]

Okay, my misunderstanding, then.  At any rate, we'll see where we go.  I have a feeling that would be a post-1.0 thing, then.

[Martyn van Buren]

I have to admit I was kinda dubious reading the post, but then I saw the video, and it looks beautiful!  I'm on board, I guess.

So there's now no hand-to-hand combat at all?  How about interiors?  I've been looking forward to fighting my way through an office building for a fire gem.