A Valley Without Wind Pre-Alpha #7 -- Lighting, Lava, Deserts, and Interiors

[BobTheJanitor]

Sounds great! Can't wait to see it in action.

[Zhaine]

For those interested, I've actually put together a new lighting model that looks awesome, using just image techniques.  It's sort of vaguely inspired by the stuff eRe4s3r was talking about.  It's a little heavier on the CPU/GPU, but not all that much really, and it's like night and day the difference.  I'm putting this in as the default, but making it so that either the new method or the older z buffer ones can be used, depending on player preference and the capabilities of their machine.  And the z buffer stuff is still being used to great effect to keep shadows behaving, too.

More details and a video later today.

Heh, you just tease us by saying it's not possible so we're happy when it is  

And yes, if that's the same John Walker writing the crisis article that writes for PC Gamer UK, then he's definitely doing a parody. He's my favorite gaming journalist ever and is very infrequently completely serious (though he's awesome whether he's being serious or not). EDIT: Just read the whole thing, was chuckling the whole time, that's brilliant, especially the bit with the cardboard boxes and where he compares the jungle and city screenshots. Easy to get the wrong end of the stick if you only skim read, or you really don't get British humour (with an -our!)

[x4000]

Heh, you just tease us by saying it's not possible so we're happy when it is 

I really didn't think it would be feasible in either of those two cases.  Shows what I know!

And yes, if that's the same John Walker writing the crisis article that writes for PC Gamer UK, then he's definitely doing a parody. He's my favorite gaming journalist ever and is very infrequently completely serious (though he's awesome whether he's being serious or not).

Oh, very cool!

[Zhaine]

Heh, you just tease us by saying it's not possible so we're happy when it is 

I really didn't think it would be feasible in either of those two cases.  Shows what I know!

We're learning every day of our lives, even those who already know lots!

And yes, if that's the same John Walker writing the crisis article that writes for PC Gamer UK, then he's definitely doing a parody. He's my favorite gaming journalist ever and is very infrequently completely serious (though he's awesome whether he's being serious or not).

Oh, very cool!

Hah, I've just had a look through that site and it seems to be made up of all the best ex-PC Gamer UK staff. . . I wondered where they'd gone off to!

[x4000]

For sure, if we aren't learning, then we aren't living much.  If I didn't try to push into territory that's new to me, I'd be an unhappy guy!

And yeah, there are a ton of folks at RPS that still write for PC Gamer UK and other magazines.  It really is one of the top PC sites around, and we're huge fans here.  I get a bit disgruntled about the art comments at times, as that sort of commentary hasn't been what I associate with RPS in the past, but that's nothing to say against the site itself, or even really the membership that comments, etc.

[Otagan]

I think it's telling that they are looking at incredibly downsampled images.  We've been through this same cycle in past weeks, and when people see our actual screens or watch the video at HD resolution, the reaction is really quite good overall.

I think part of it is also just the risk you run when you put pre-alpha footage out there in a public setting like you have elected to do.  A disturbing number of people in the comments appear to think this footage is intended to be a preview of the game in a more advanced level of development (completely ignoring the bit in the intro about being pre-alpha), and so they treat the whole game as a simplistic top-down action game, since that's all we have footage of up to this point.  If they haven't paid a scrap of attention to the game, they will see a video of you running around a lava wasteland slinging spells at six identical enemies that are chasing you.  That gives no idea of the true intended nature and scope of the game as a procedurally generated world in ruin with survivors, settlements, shelters, and what-not.

Doing video releases like these can be very much a double-edged sword when RPS is going to put them on the front page for all to see.  It's great for people like us who long for more info on the game, but it can be detrimental to the first impressions of those who have never heard of the game before now.  While I do have my reservations about the way the game looks right now (animations in particular), I definitely recognize that the dev time on this game so far is a mere fraction of the final figure and can adjust my perceptions accordingly.  Unfortunately, the body public of the internet is not always so attentive or forgiving.

[Zhaine]

I think it's telling that they are looking at incredibly downsampled images.  We've been through this same cycle in past weeks, and when people see our actual screens or watch the video at HD resolution, the reaction is really quite good overall.

I think part of it is also just the risk you run when you put pre-alpha footage out there in a public setting like you have elected to do.  A disturbing number of people in the comments appear to think this footage is intended to be a preview of the game in a more advanced level of development (completely ignoring the bit in the intro about being pre-alpha), and so they treat the whole game as a simplistic top-down action game, since that's all we have footage of up to this point.  If they haven't paid a scrap of attention to the game, they will see a video of you running around a lava wasteland slinging spells at six identical enemies that are chasing you.  That gives no idea of the true intended nature and scope of the game as a procedurally generated world in ruin with survivors, settlements, shelters, and what-not.

Doing video releases like these can be very much a double-edged sword when RPS is going to put them on the front page for all to see.  It's great for people like us who long for more info on the game, but it can be detrimental to the first impressions of those who have never heard of the game before now.  While I do have my reservations about the way the game looks right now (animations in particular), I definitely recognize that the dev time on this game so far is a mere fraction of the final figure and can adjust my perceptions accordingly.  Unfortunately, the body public of the internet is not always so attentive or forgiving.

I was going to post pretty much this. I don't think reading the reactionary comments of people who don't know much about where in development the game is that productive. . . I mean if you don't know what stage things are at and you see that bit with the empty room and a single dude plonking down rough-edged lights, yeah it looks terrible! But if you know that you only just implemented rooms and lighting and there's 100x more variety and tons of changes to come, then it's exciting.

[Zhaine]

Sorry to double post: perhaps you could ask Jim Rossignol (man I've missed his writing, why did no one tell me he's gone there ) just to make it a touch clearer how early these vids are? Better still though I just wouldn't read the comments. . . Comment threads for news posts seem to be universally filled with hate and flames, even on sites I love. I'm not advising you to try and insulate yourself from everything negative (just yesterday I was making constructive criticism right here) but there's no point reading posts by people who know very very little about and your game and have nothing invested in trying to be constructive and improve it.


Or, if you want me to put it another way, I love this guy's games and he doesn't even read his forums:

http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com/2011/01/three-reasons-creators-should-never.html

I know that's not your style of game or style of development, but I have enormous respect for Jeff's opinions, even when I disagree with them, and there's something to be said for that blog.

[x4000]

A lot of very good points all around.

[x4000]

Here's a video of the new lighting model, as well as an explanation of how it works!  http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,8504.msg75389.html#msg75389