Author Topic: (Devs requesting feedback) How's the strategy game?  (Read 1821 times)

Offline keith.lamothe

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(Devs requesting feedback) How's the strategy game?
« on: February 04, 2013, 10:38:31 AM »
How does the strategy-game part of Valley2 feel?  I don't have any additional features or changes planned for it, so what you're seeing is essentially what it will be in 1.0 unless I become aware of a need to change something. 

I fully expect to need to change various balance factors, and we'll be doing our own internal playtesting as part of that, but I'm actually far more interested in how it feels from the player perspective.

And it's certainly possible that something more fundamental is wrong; mainly I'm looking to y'all to tell me if that's true, as things seem pretty decent from our perspective.


Thanks for the feedback :)
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Offline madcow

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Re: (Devs requesting feedback) How's the strategy game?
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2013, 11:01:47 AM »
I've got one game going that I started on the default difficulty on patch 0.722, I honk I'm actually about to lose it due in large part to an impending food shortage, the overlord seems to spam those spells fast enough that I can't really work tiles. This is just one game and my first since he started casting spells. I'm at the point where I realized I needed a clinic/farms right at the cusp of needing them, and spam blizzards have kept me from actually making them.  Think I'm about to lose it.  I couldn't really say if this is a balance issue, or even if its a current issue as the world was generated in 722, but its my own experience.

One hint that does feel off is my inability to tell what spells he's capable of casting. It would be nice if getting a region view on the overlord gave us a mana bar for him, as well as saying how much is needed for each spell he casts.

Edit: I can attach a world file if that helps, I'm not saying its definitely too hard just that I know I'm going to be losing this. Maybe in part due to not fully giving demonica's spell power it's due.

Also this just occurred to me, the moral loss on death could maybe use a buff.  5ish seems about right to me.

Double edit: so many typos. Sorry!
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 11:10:31 AM by madcow »

Offline x4000

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Re: (Devs requesting feedback) How's the strategy game?
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2013, 11:10:08 AM »
From my playtime with it, I felt like the number of tiles he covers with his spells in the very early game was also a bit on the high side.
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: (Devs requesting feedback) How's the strategy game?
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2013, 11:16:05 AM »
Yea, I can tone down the tile count on them a bit.

Quote
One hint that does feel off is my inability to tell what spells he's capable of casting. It would be nice if getting a region view on the overlord gave us a mana bar for him, as well as saying how much is needed for each spell he casts.
Well, that info can be given... but should it?  Is it normal or good to tell you everything that a strategy game opponent might do?

Quote
Also this just occurred to me, the moral loss on death could maybe use a buff.  5ish seems about right to me.
It is 5, at least in all the places I'm aware of.  When did you see it not deduct 5 on a death?  Oh, you mean player death, not NPC death?  I don't really look at the side-view-death-penalty as part of the strategy game and haven't had anything to do with it, but perhaps it could use adjustment.
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Offline x4000

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Re: (Devs requesting feedback) How's the strategy game?
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2013, 11:21:34 AM »
I will say this: when Demonaica suddenly busted out the spell on the tiles I was on, it was a real shock despite the fact that I knew he could do that sort of thing.  It wasn't all that pleasant of a surprise, really.  Before that I'd been warned when he was coming out of his keep, and I'd been able to keep tabs on his movements across the map.  But I hadn't had the same sort of warning about when a spell was impending.

I think that maybe some text on him that says something like "Spell Incoming Next Turn" would be good, right there on the map.  And then if you go to the region he is on, it shows you the countdown of number of turns until he will cast a spell.

Knowing specifically what he will do is bad, I agree.  But knowing when he can do something, since it's predictable, is in my opinion good.  Otherwise you're just requiring me to remember the invisible rules and keep track of it in my head.  If I go away from a game and come back, I have to remember how many turns it has been since his last spell, etc. I think that the game should keep track of that for the player and keep them informed, while not specifying at all what KIND of spell is going to be upcoming.  That would have made my experience with him in the early game a lot more pleasant; the sudden meteor storm would have been a surprise still, but of the "oh so THAT'S what an 'incoming spell next turn' meant" sort of way.
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Offline madcow

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Re: (Devs requesting feedback) How's the strategy game?
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2013, 11:26:41 AM »
Player death, not npc.  I'm not actually sure what player death is at, but it feels lowish to me at the moment.

And I wasn't necessarily saying to show what he'll do exactly, but an indication of how his spell strength is would be nice. Even if its just a low, medium, or high would be helpful.

Edit: Chris said it a lot better than I could! Saying incoming spell would work as well.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 11:29:21 AM by madcow »

Offline x4000

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Re: (Devs requesting feedback) How's the strategy game?
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2013, 11:32:37 AM »
Player death is currently at 1 morale.  Five seems a bit punitive to me, not sure.  It depends on how often people are really dying, I guess.
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Offline madcow

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Re: (Devs requesting feedback) How's the strategy game?
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2013, 11:38:14 AM »
1 morale is gained back each successful turn as well, so it can take a lot before it would become noticeable - unless you're already doing poorly in the strategic side as well.  I guess you don't want it too high, but the current 1 feels like I can ignore it completely.

Offline x4000

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Re: (Devs requesting feedback) How's the strategy game?
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2013, 11:39:14 AM »
That's a good point.  Hopefully you are not dying once per turn anyhow... hmm.  Perhaps it should be something like 3 morale on player death, to not make it egregious but at least to make it so that it's not a complete non-feature.
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Offline madcow

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Re: (Devs requesting feedback) How's the strategy game?
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2013, 11:42:18 AM »
Three would work, enough bite that you won't want to die several times in a row, but small enough to not worry about the occasional death.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: (Devs requesting feedback) How's the strategy game?
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2013, 11:45:37 AM »
Ok, I can have it say "spell incoming in X turns" and then "spell incoming NEXT turn" on the overlord token, easy enough :)
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Offline tigersfan

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Re: (Devs requesting feedback) How's the strategy game?
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2013, 11:53:12 AM »
Be careful with the morale hit on player death. I know a number of players who do frequently die at a rate of 1/turn or more. Perhaps we should somehow base it on difficulty level?

Offline x4000

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Re: (Devs requesting feedback) How's the strategy game?
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2013, 11:54:51 AM »
I think that makes good sense.  Let's leave it at 1 for the default combat difficulty, maybe have it as 0 on lower than the default combat difficulty, then go up to 2 once you hit skilled, 3 on hero, 4 on master hero?
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Offline tigersfan

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Re: (Devs requesting feedback) How's the strategy game?
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2013, 12:28:06 PM »
4 might be getting a tad high, but, I like the rest of that, for sure.

Offline Mick

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Re: (Devs requesting feedback) How's the strategy game?
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2013, 01:41:10 PM »
I need to play the latest version more to get a good idea of how it feels, but right off the bat I like the strategic portion way way more than I did with how it was in alpha. I was afraid at first that the strategy portion of the game would take a back seat the side scrolling part, but now I'm a lot more hopeful.