Author Topic: Guardian Damage Boosters  (Read 1211 times)

Offline Wanderer

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,577
  • If you're not drunk you're doing it wrong.
Guardian Damage Boosters
« on: April 17, 2012, 01:33:13 AM »
I'm not sure I see the value in the Guardian damage booster ability you can fire up from the settlement, maybe someone can point me in the right direction.

For the moment, I only have Minor wraths/uplifting/etc.  I've got a moderate one but that's limited by NPC, not anything else.

However, is there a way later that the time these will run for is expanded?  5 minutes is... well... a few rooms, maybe one surface area or two.  Nothing important, and certainly not "I'm on my way to a boss, fire it up!"  You'd have to clear a tower, head home, heal, fire it up, and then head BACK to the boss.

What am I missing here?
... and then we'll have cake.

Offline Toll

  • Sr. Member Mark III
  • ****
  • Posts: 452
Re: Guardian Damage Boosters
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2012, 01:44:54 AM »
You're probably missing the fact that you can use them from anywhere, not just the main settlement.

Offline Toll

  • Sr. Member Mark III
  • ****
  • Posts: 452
Re: Guardian Damage Boosters
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2012, 01:46:27 AM »
Oh, and how to do so: Menu -> Planning -> Continent Status -> Guardian Power Scrolls. Might need to make it more accessible somehow, I never reflected over how long it was to get to it...

Offline Wanderer

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,577
  • If you're not drunk you're doing it wrong.
Re: Guardian Damage Boosters
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2012, 01:48:09 AM »
You're probably missing the fact that you can use them from anywhere, not just the main settlement.

How do you fire them up as you head into the boss room?  I don't see anything in the Esc menus, a special key, or a way from the world map.

Edit: Sniped!  Thanks Toll!
... and then we'll have cake.

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,506
Re: Guardian Damage Boosters
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2012, 10:44:01 AM »
Yea, I went with 5 minutes because I figured that would give the right mix between "not long lasting" and "can at least last through a boss fight".  I don't mind increasing it if folks are unable to get acceptable value out of it, but in general I think popping a chain of these right before a lieutenant or overlord battle really can prove its value.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Toll

  • Sr. Member Mark III
  • ****
  • Posts: 452
Re: Guardian Damage Boosters
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2012, 11:49:10 AM »
Just an FYI, I just killed another Overlord, and that battle lasted a little under two minutes. Not sure where that would place on the "Overlord Speedkill Chart" (probably pretty low, I'd bet), but five minutes on the power boosters seems more than valid to me :D

Offline Wanderer

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,577
  • If you're not drunk you're doing it wrong.
Re: Guardian Damage Boosters
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2012, 01:49:09 PM »
Yea, I went with 5 minutes because I figured that would give the right mix between "not long lasting" and "can at least last through a boss fight".  I don't mind increasing it if folks are unable to get acceptable value out of it, but in general I think popping a chain of these right before a lieutenant or overlord battle really can prove its value.

I hadn't realized that they were deployable 'in the field', so that will probably change my stance on the value of 5 minutes of time with them.  It's enough for the boss fights, but it's not something you could use to go tackle a 'difficult area', though I suppose you could just spam them.

20% for 5 minutes just doesn't seem like a lot, though it's only Tier 3 so that's affecting my judgement on it.  I get more boost off a basic bonus enchantment for the same power type (40% minimum), and that's permanent, though it does take over the right-arm slot.  Admittedly it's a nice stack, but the ratio of bonus goes down the more you stack of the same power levels.  For a rare, instead of materials, one-shot scroll, it seems a bit weak.  I'll mess with it though before I whine mightily about them, but at first glance I'd be looking for something at 100% or so increase for my 5 minutes.  Most guardian scrolls have a significant effect, this is more 'meh, sure, why not?' to me at first and second glance... and if I'm paying attention would probably skip their pickups for more effective scrolls or materials.
... and then we'll have cake.

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,506
Re: Guardian Damage Boosters
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2012, 01:58:22 PM »
20% for 5 minutes just doesn't seem like a lot, though it's only Tier 3 so that's affecting my judgement on it.  I get more boost off a basic bonus enchantment for the same power type (40% minimum), and that's permanent, though it does take over the right-arm slot.  Admittedly it's a nice stack
The stacking thing is the main bonus; you can also stack a Tier 1, Tier 2, and Tier 3 (and 4 and 5 if you have them) guardian power buff; leading to like +200% fire damage if you managed to get all of the red ones, etc.

Quote
but the ratio of bonus goes down the more you stack of the same power levels
Depends on the stat,  -10% cooldowns means a lot more if you're currently at 50% cooldowns than if you're currently at 100% cooldowns.  And +10% damage is the same amount of actual damage-added-per-shot regardless of where it currently is.

Anyway, it is possible the effects on at least some of the stats are too low (I think stacking a few cooldown buffs and a few mana-cost buffs could make quite a difference), will keep an ear out for that :)
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Wanderer

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,577
  • If you're not drunk you're doing it wrong.
Re: Guardian Damage Boosters
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2012, 02:12:00 PM »
20% for 5 minutes just doesn't seem like a lot, though it's only Tier 3 so that's affecting my judgement on it.  I get more boost off a basic bonus enchantment for the same power type (40% minimum), and that's permanent, though it does take over the right-arm slot.  Admittedly it's a nice stack
The stacking thing is the main bonus; you can also stack a Tier 1, Tier 2, and Tier 3 (and 4 and 5 if you have them) guardian power buff; leading to like +200% fire damage if you managed to get all of the red ones, etc.
Agreed, but you're talking about 5 mission rewards (an entire tier of upgrade for the world, and no materials) being used all at once... for 5 minutes.  Errr... hrm.

Quote
Depends on the stat,  -10% cooldowns means a lot more if you're currently at 50% cooldowns than if you're currently at 100% cooldowns.  And +10% damage is the same amount of actual damage-added-per-shot regardless of where it currently is.

Anyway, it is possible the effects on at least some of the stats are too low (I think stacking a few cooldown buffs and a few mana-cost buffs could make quite a difference), will keep an ear out for that :)
True, true.  I tend to build at the extremes as you know, though, and a max-damage (then runaway to recharge) build is my most common build.  Because of the rarer nature of guardian scrolls it's not something I can rely on without it costing me something else, so it may be a play-style thing more than anything else. 

My current enchant build is (none of these are uncommon or rare, either):
2xjump + 11% movement + -12% falling speed
-15% Damage Taken + Emit Light + 6% Light power (backup for the Energy Pulse)
40% projectile speed + -9% cooldown + 3% Magic Power 
53% Earth Power + 10% Water Power (I occassionally use splash-back for those 'trapped in a corner' situations)

This will lay waste to my mana pool with Forest Rage in about 7 seconds.  It's currently doing 225.8/hit with a 664 DPS at 0.34 cooldown.  My only risk-taker right now is for fire, so I'm waiting on an earth one (and something else with light on it).

Given that, 20% increase in damage from the base for 5 minutes seems less important than getting more Earth Essence as a mission reward to bring it to T5 permanently. I think it'd up me by about 25/hit for the 20% boost.

Anyways, just figured I'd bring more background to the discussion.  Someone built for high-cooldown/low-consumption rates would probably get a huge boost off the 20% increase.  I just prefer to nuke and avoid then keep up a constant dodge-fest, it makes things like the landspeeders and room-entry clearances a lot easier.  Speaking of, I may switch to fire soon for the 360 degree fireball nuke. :)  KATHOOOOOM!
... and then we'll have cake.

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,506
Re: Guardian Damage Boosters
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2012, 02:17:47 PM »
Hmm, I'm thinking that maybe the power-granting missions should give 3 scrolls now; 1 that tries to be a building, 1 that 50/50's between strategic and buff, and 1 that's always a buff.

To lower the "cost" of them, so to speak.  5 scrolls to get +200% damage on your main nuke for an overlord fight seems fine from my perspective, but if it's 4-5 missions (a full continent tier) to get it, that could be a bit of a problem.  Dunno.  I guess it depends on how much difference that +200% makes.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Wanderer

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,577
  • If you're not drunk you're doing it wrong.
Re: Guardian Damage Boosters
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2012, 02:26:08 PM »
Hmm, I'm thinking that maybe the power-granting missions should give 3 scrolls now; 1 that tries to be a building, 1 that 50/50's between strategic and buff, and 1 that's always a buff.

To lower the "cost" of them, so to speak.  5 scrolls to get +200% damage on your main nuke for an overlord fight seems fine from my perspective, but if it's 4-5 missions (a full continent tier) to get it, that could be a bit of a problem.  Dunno.  I guess it depends on how much difference that +200% makes.

That would be really nice, since then your buff spells are just 'nice extras' as you chase down windbreaks and buoys and 'seek poor sap trapped in the wilderness' spells.  As a nice to have they're reasonably powerful.  As a replacement to permanent items they're a poor man's choice at the lower tiers, which is when you're doing a lot of material collecting anyway.  You're already having to swap some of those middle tier missions out for windbreaks and whatever else the settlement needs, so really I'd only get the buffs if you found a secret mission and it sounded fun and I'm not doing it for the rewards but just to have some fun.

As to how much 200% difference would make: Recently fighting a lieutenant I had to do 3 "Nuke and Runs" against him with the current build at T4, which puts me at ~155% damage boost.  At 355% damage boost (assuming I'd gotten all the buildings for all the scrolls and went and got them, which meant I'd be pretty weak spell-wise) if I'd still had T4 Forest Rage I could have laid waste to him in 1, maybe 1 and a half nuke and runs (his buddies were part of the problem).  So, very powerful.  Also incredibly expensive in mission time to build the settlement and get the scrolls... for one boss.
... and then we'll have cake.

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,506
Re: Guardian Damage Boosters
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2012, 02:28:30 PM »
Also incredibly expensive in mission time to build the settlement and get the scrolls... for one boss.
But if it's the overlord, and it's the difference between tough-as-nails and embarrassing the guy... it's a bit tricky to balance ;)  But we'll see.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Wanderer

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,577
  • If you're not drunk you're doing it wrong.
Re: Guardian Damage Boosters
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2012, 02:32:03 PM »
FWIW, I'm looking over the scroll drops in .931 now, and it appears you typically get two scrolls per main mission.  So it's likely to trip on a buff spell while getting another one you needed.
... and then we'll have cake.