Author Topic: Names for a game you have no idea what it's about?  (Read 3010 times)

Offline x4000

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Re: Names for a game you have no idea what it's about?
« Reply #60 on: March 02, 2016, 08:18:46 PM »
3D and destructible environment? :o

Only buildings and objects; not terrain.  So think more like Red Faction: Guerrilla.  Originally I was looking to do terrain as well, but that gets beastly on the network and I was not happy with voxel solutions I was able to either come up with or purchase.

I have to say, though, that it's immensely fun to blow something up only to have its physical shrapnel go flying through the air, cause further destruction, knock over a tree, that tree falls hard on a big pile of other stuff, and there's just... wreckage. :D
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Offline chemical_art

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Re: Names for a game you have no idea what it's about?
« Reply #61 on: March 02, 2016, 08:32:23 PM »
3D and destructible environment? :o

I think he has implied the terrain (terra) itself will not, but he has further elaborated that objects may which is far less intensive on...many fronts.


EDIT:ninjaed

It works out better I think. I've had far more fun just reacting to a good object physics compared to just terra alteration. Battlefield: Bad Company 2 and Red faction come to mind.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 08:34:00 PM by chemical_art »
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Offline x4000

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Re: Names for a game you have no idea what it's about?
« Reply #62 on: March 02, 2016, 08:34:00 PM »
Destructible terrain can be done a variety of ways without being TOO computationally expensive, but storing all that data (and transmitting it for network play) is a real beast.  Ultimately I didn't feel like it added that much to the game to be worth all that.
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Offline chemical_art

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Re: Names for a game you have no idea what it's about?
« Reply #63 on: March 02, 2016, 08:39:43 PM »
Yes I am going through my mental history and can find many of great memories of destructible / free "physics" objects, not so many with destructible terrain. In a few games you actually placed "objects" that altered the terrian (trenches, walls) but to the casual observer they just seemed to follow the same concept.
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Offline x4000

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Re: Names for a game you have no idea what it's about?
« Reply #64 on: March 02, 2016, 08:43:01 PM »
I have enjoyed it a lot in 7 Days To Die.  However, it was partly because there was not enough interesting going on ABOVE ground.  For instance, "mining" is something I did a lot of, and my wife remarked with surprise that I wouldn't want that in this game.  Since I spent so much time with it.  My response was that I prefer exploration, and I'd prefer to "mine" buildings and objects.  My quest in 7 Days was always to get TNT to blow up buildings and watch them topple.  Such a rare sight!  So much fun!

In something like RF:G it is way more common but still just as fun.  Making it actually USEFUL as well (hey that's how you mine) is a double bonus.
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Offline chemical_art

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Re: Names for a game you have no idea what it's about?
« Reply #65 on: March 02, 2016, 09:04:53 PM »
Yes using terrain as a mechanic (mining, building) is a great idea, however I find it causes a split focus between the surface world and the under world. I can love either (Dwarf Fortress 2) but I find it is necessary to focus on one mechanic over another (expand horizontally or vertically, over or underground, etc). Trying to do too many things leads to serious feature creep.

In either case, I feel it is feel the best return of investing the time to have the environment be altered is that if it ultimately expands the enjoyment players a player can have. Given a large enough "tool kit" players can have a ton of fun just experimenting. For your example of the towers you can make it so a tower can be leveled by shooting the base. You would have to give incentives to not always do that but the option is certainly satisfying.

https://youtu.be/2kMzYIWe_9U?t=4s
https://youtu.be/zSsdHPK8BIs?t=36s
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Offline x4000

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Re: Names for a game you have no idea what it's about?
« Reply #66 on: March 02, 2016, 09:11:44 PM »
Right, for sure.  I felt like that was something that overall RF:G got a bit wrong was making it so that the best option wasn't to just level the building.  The only way they got around that was by limiting your weapons or making buildings respawn if you didn't finish them off before leaving the area, neither of which are things I loved.

For me, I feel like the harvesting of resources should come only when you're directly attacking the thing; and looting of stuff would only happen if you actually open a chest or cabinet or whatever versus blowing it up.  So if you blow up a tower on sight, you're saying you didn't want any of the loot in there, and didn't want the full benefit of the resources it could have yielded.  That sort of tradeoff would lead me to -- generally -- explore and loot a building and then nuke it.
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Offline chemical_art

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Re: Names for a game you have no idea what it's about?
« Reply #67 on: March 02, 2016, 09:20:41 PM »
So if you blow up a tower on sight, you're saying you didn't want any of the loot in there, and didn't want the full benefit of the resources it could have yielded.  That sort of tradeoff would lead me to -- generally -- explore and loot a building and then nuke it.

Yes it is wonderful and allows for more flexible game-play. For example a key thing about explosive weapons is that either they are incredibly rationed (which leads to hoarding) or they are underwhelming which is not as satisfying. By making it so you have to have to leave a structure standing while inside is a very effective way to balance the weapon from being overused while still allowing it to have that power.
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Offline x4000

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Re: Names for a game you have no idea what it's about?
« Reply #68 on: March 02, 2016, 09:23:02 PM »
Thanks, glad you like it. :)  Yeah, I prefer to make it so that I can have my cake and eat it too on the explosives... but that there's a whole collateral damage thing to think about (and not in a punitive "don't like your escort NPC die" sort of fashion).  Sometimes I just won't care about loot and I'll blow up the tower to get rid of the guys in it... and collect a bit of resources from it just because they fell out, heh.
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Offline Draco18s

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Re: Names for a game you have no idea what it's about?
« Reply #69 on: March 03, 2016, 05:36:30 AM »
I figured it wasn't terrain which is why I used the word environment.  I've played Men of War.

Also.  Play Men of War, or at least watch videos of its amazing destructible stuff system and bullet ricochet.  You absolutely can hide a tank inside a house, fire a shell through the wall (which leaves a hole), have the shell glance off the armor of one tank, decapitate a soldier, slam into the side of another tank, and destroy it (at least until someone comes along and repairs it, sort of).

Offline Pumpkin

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Re: Names for a game you have no idea what it's about?
« Reply #70 on: March 03, 2016, 07:43:59 AM »
Waitwaitwait... Network?
Oh, yeah, multiplayer and stuff. Silly me. :D

Then I have a question for ya, Chris. Will there be PvP? Wiil there be coop? Both? Only one? As it is a survival game, I bet coop will be in. But what is your politic about PvP? Regarding AI War, I know you know PvP isn't mandatory for a great game, and I fully agree with that. While I personally hate PvP (yeah, truly), what are your plans for this "mysterious" game? Will it be allowed? Will it be a core objective or an occasional matter? Will there be competition (which is another form of PvP)?

... if we're allowed to know, because secrets and stuff.
 ::)
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Offline x4000

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Re: Names for a game you have no idea what it's about?
« Reply #71 on: March 03, 2016, 01:54:14 PM »
Very very cool about Men of War.  There are some things along those lines that I'm working on, although likely not with the same visual sophistication (ha).

In terms of multiplayer, PvE is the main thing I want to focus on.  This isn't just some sort of random "do whatever you like" sort of game; there's a progression to things, and an endgame that sort of cycles.

I know that a lot of people love PvP, but then you run into the need for all sorts of anti-griefing tools, anti-cheat tools, and so on.  Before you know it, you're installing rootkits on the player machines and it still doesn't work (cough Ark cough).  Or you've got really strange concepts like Land Claim Blocks in 7 Days to Die.  Or those sorts of insane interactions and spawn-campers and all that from DayZ.

To me, there are plenty of games about "are you better at killing me or am I better at killing you?"  I really used to enjoy Unreal Tournament and Quake II.  And Day of Defeat and Counter Strike.  But pretty much all of those, past a certain point, were team-based games.  To me one of the interesting things was finding out "am I doing the best on my team, or in general how am I doing relative to the rest of my team?"

Putting AI enemies and a PvE scenario on the other side of that rather than other human players is something I'd prefer, but then to keep that sort of scoreboard system for the human players.  Heck, potentially having random "bounties" that only show up for a single player, and the player can aid the rest of the humans by doing that if they want to.  Other players can either help them or can just say "good luck to ya buddy."  That sort of competition-that-is-still-teamwork is something I really like.  It's Gimli and Legolas in a lot of ways. ;)
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Offline Draco18s

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Re: Names for a game you have no idea what it's about?
« Reply #72 on: March 03, 2016, 04:29:31 PM »
Very very cool about Men of War.  There are some things along those lines that I'm working on, although likely not with the same visual sophistication (ha).

Oh sure.  I just mean that it's worth looking at, even if the result is "that's really awesome, I am not doing that."

Offline Pumpkin

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Re: Names for a game you have no idea what it's about?
« Reply #73 on: March 04, 2016, 06:42:08 AM »
Coming from AI War's designer  (which is the only asymmetric-RTS-PvE I'm aware of), I expected no less.
(Did I say I --personally-- hate PvP?)

Gimli and Legolas in a lot of ways. ;)
The new definition of competitive PvE! I love it!
Please excuse my english: I'm not a native speaker. Don't hesitate to correct me.
Pumpkin>> Do I need another cure about paranoia on top of overexcitement?
Mal>> We play AI War, enthusiasm and paranoia are both required!

Offline x4000

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Re: Names for a game you have no idea what it's about?
« Reply #74 on: March 04, 2016, 02:49:08 PM »
Gimli and Legolas in a lot of ways. ;)
The new definition of competitive PvE! I love it!

"That still only counts as one!!"
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